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Old 07-24-2019, 02:02 PM
 
2,134 posts, read 900,473 times
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You are correct, Jews excell in all fields and it's largely cultural. The same cultural push in education is being seen with orientals as well. In my top rated academic public high school more than 50 years ago, more than half of the top students were Jewish. Today, in that same school, due to stringent entrance requirements, the student body is overwhelmingly oriental.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
True, much of the disdain for Jews is due to jealousy for their levels of success, generally speaking. But you fall prey to a stereotype when you zero in on "success in commerce," when in fact Jews have achieved success far above their numbers in science, technology, and medicine. They are, for example, disproportionate recipients of Nobel prizes.

It might be for another thread, but this success can be attributed to a number of factors, key among them being a strong emphasis on education (learning has been seen as a mitzvah since before Jesus was born) and a low out-of-wedlock birthrate. Until a couple of generations ago, they also had much lower levels of alcoholism, but alas, we've "caught up" to the general population.
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Old 07-24-2019, 03:05 PM
 
694 posts, read 76,149 times
Reputation: 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobspez View Post
Now you have shown contempt for me. Why? Since you brought it up I do that. I have recognized that all organized religion, charity, education, government, is first and foremost a profit making busines, set up for the benefit of those who run those organizations, not the people who support them, so I practice my religion, charity and education at home, and don't mess with the govenment.

I assure you, there was more humor than contempt in my response to your suggestions as to how Jews (and others) ought to live their lives. You wrote: "You can believe what you believe without involving anyone else. You don't have to make your beliefs your identity. You don't have to go to any church or synagogue to be a believer."

Thank you, but I'm very happy being involved with others in my Jewish community. I am very happy to identify as a Jew. I am very happy to belong to a synagogue.

And finally, I'm very happy for you as regards your own life. I wouldn't dream of trying to convince you to change your life. I hope that you will afford me the same courtesy.
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Old 07-24-2019, 03:45 PM
 
2,134 posts, read 900,473 times
Reputation: 5228
Yes, but I didn't make the suggestion to you, nor would I try. I was answering the OP who no longer has a relationship with his family because of his conversion to a branch of Judaism that basically says follow the commandments, nothing else is needed, which is what I believe as well as the golden rule. My faith doesn't require any religious ceremonies or priests, rabbis, or anyone else.

If he just told his family he doesn't want to go to church any more and followed his learning and beliefs in private, there probably wouldn't be a problem, as lots of Christians don't go to church. Plus he is on his new religion's mailing list. This is more like being a Rosicrucian than following an organized religion, and there's nothing wrong with it. He's in Texas and they are in California, there's no place for him to practice this religion where he lives. I don't see shy he should make an issue of it, or claim this as his public identity.

You are in a very different situation from the OP, as are practicing Catholics. You can't easily practice your religion by yourself in your home.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel NewYork View Post
I assure you, there was more humor than contempt in my response to your suggestions as to how Jews (and others) ought to live their lives. You wrote: "You can believe what you believe without involving anyone else. You don't have to make your beliefs your identity. You don't have to go to any church or synagogue to be a believer."

Thank you, but I'm very happy being involved with others in my Jewish community. I am very happy to identify as a Jew. I am very happy to belong to a synagogue.

And finally, I'm very happy for you as regards your own life. I wouldn't dream of trying to convince you to change your life. I hope that you will afford me the same courtesy.
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Old 07-24-2019, 04:06 PM
 
694 posts, read 76,149 times
Reputation: 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobspez View Post
Yes, but I didn't make the suggestion to you, nor would I try. I was answering the OP who no longer has a relationship with his family because of his conversion to a branch of Judaism that basically says follow the commandments, nothing else is needed, which is what I believe as well as the golden rule. My faith doesn't require any religious ceremonies or priests, rabbis, or anyone else.

If he just told his family he doesn't want to go to church any more and followed his learning and beliefs in private, there probably wouldn't be a problem, as lots of Christians don't go to church. Plus he is on his new religion's mailing list. This is more like being a Rosicrucian than following an organized religion, and there's nothing wrong with it. He's in Texas and they are in California, there's no place for him to practice this religion where he lives. I don't see shy he should make an issue of it, or claim this as his public identity.

You are in a very different situation from the OP, as are practicing Catholics. You can't easily practice your religion by yourself in your home.

Oh! Sorry for the misunderstanding! We've had more than a few visitors to this forum with their own ideas about Jews and Judaism, so I apologize for being a bit apprehensive.

What you said makes good sense.
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Old 07-24-2019, 05:26 PM
 
55 posts, read 6,773 times
Reputation: 20
I didn't have a religious upbringing, and it wasn't till I was 28 years old that I finally started to read the scriptures. And that was because everything was going horribly wrong in my life. And I do not belong to any religious organization. I am pretty much out here all alone....well I have my friends I grew up with, who religious people would probably call sinners, but I like them. I don't talk about God much with them though, only when needed, and just tiny bits.


What I share comes from reading scripture and listening, and it all makes perfect sense. I went to religious gatherings for awhile when God first got my attention, but then I walked away, because I found them not to be truthful and when I questioned them and told them what I knew firsthand.....well, let me just say, I saw who they really were behind all those facades. If they can't accept what I said, I have no need to fight about it. I walk in shared "under-standing". It has nothing at all to do with superiority or proclaiming some higher knowledge. That is what the serpent claimed to offer in his beguiling lie.


I figure that is why the religious folks don't get me. They are all about higher learning and my meeting place with God is in a shared under-standing. I love that because it keeps my feet on the ground, and because I am so much lower than them, I find all the treasure that they over-look. I have no desire to serve my own image. That is what the serpent taught and though I am very much aware of his beguiling teachings, I do not follow them, because they don't lead home. How can serving your own image possibly lead home. King Solomon asked for wisdom to lead the people. Did you notice that the Urim and Thummin are no longer mentioned in use after King David. I said earlier that I am all alone out here, but not really, because I never feel alone. Now King Solomon had a 1000 wives and the adoration of the people, but in essence he was really out there all alone. Getting over yourself is a beautiful breaking point. How can anyone truly be honest and see things clearly without that.
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Old 07-26-2019, 08:49 PM
 
Location: small Southern town balabusta
1,160 posts, read 1,440,593 times
Reputation: 772
If you're going to be Jewish (conversion is a long process), you have to have thick skin and never be deterred. Yes, people in our families disown us, and then our own people, the Jews, can seemingly argue a lot. Talk to your Rabbi and do a proper conversion.
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Old 07-29-2019, 09:28 AM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,829 posts, read 10,759,079 times
Reputation: 2548
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobspez View Post
Now you have shown contempt for me. Why? Since you brought it up I do that. I have recognized that all organized religion, charity, education, government, is first and foremost a profit making busines, set up for the benefit of those who run those organizations, not the people who support them, so I practice my religion, charity and education at home, and don't mess with the govenment.
Plenty of synagogues are not "profitable" and in fact there are independent minyanim with no paid staff whatsoever, no dues, entirely run by members.

However organized entities, including charities and schools are central to Judaism and have been for millenia.


Hillel said: Do not separate yourself from the community; Pirkei Avot, Chapter 2, Verse 5.

You are free to follow your individualist approach, but its not Judaism.
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Old 07-29-2019, 09:34 AM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,829 posts, read 10,759,079 times
Reputation: 2548
BTW I do consider Karaism a form of Judaism, though I think it has proven far less spiritually and culturally fruitful than rabbinic Judaism . Our sages of blessed memory, are a font of wisdom, and the religious civilization we created by considering them central, and not just "one more opinion" is a brilliant one. But if one wants to seriously approach Karaism, one DOES have to approach a Karaite community I think. The temptation to go alone, is one natural to Karaism I think, beause of the Karaite approach. I think it also naturally attracts gentiles whose knowledge of Judaism is mostly gained from solitary bible study, and not from engagement with actual Jews or Jewish tradition.
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Old 07-30-2019, 08:10 AM
 
55 posts, read 6,773 times
Reputation: 20
I always here that the people you call Rabbi's push converts away, to test their sincerity. If they pushed me away, I would just leave, figuring that they were being sincere in pushing me away.
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Old 07-30-2019, 01:14 PM
 
694 posts, read 76,149 times
Reputation: 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynborndad View Post
Plenty of synagogues are not "profitable"...
That's for sure. My own congregation is in the midst of trying to find a new sanctuary, as we are not able to meet the mortgage on our building anymore. These upcoming High Holy Days will probably be the last time we will meet in our beautiful sanctuary, unless the bank that holds the mortgage decides to work something out with us.
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