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Old 08-21-2019, 06:23 AM
 
3,944 posts, read 777,046 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chava61 View Post
What about if the man's mother is a Jewish convert?
If she converted before he was born, he's Jewish.
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Old 08-21-2019, 06:46 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
If she converted before he was born, he's Jewish.

Yep.
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Old 08-21-2019, 08:43 AM
 
Location: small Southern town balabusta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pumpkin mouse View Post
Wouldn’t more observant Orthodox have different speech patterns/ accents, words they call things , or how they pray will be different?
Do all Orthodox speak Yiddish also?
Do they have certain code words they use among themselves ?
I might be thinking of a stricter sect within a movement, like the Satmar.
Wouldn’t it be considered mean to let a more Orthodox sect think you’re Orthodox and count you towards a minyan, if you’re Reform or Conservative ?

It's not considered "mean", but perhaps disrespectful if you've converted via R or C and then try to daven with Orthodox Jews without letting someone know the circumstances of you trying to daven there. As far as I know, putting them in the situation of possibly davening with non-Jews is a transgression. If you were born Jewish and are a Ba'al Teshuva, or Reform, or Conservative with a Jewish maternal lineage, you can do what you like, as long as you're halachically Jewish and interested in eventually getting back on the derech.

The Chassids' main goal, from what I can see, is uniting halachic Jews and helping halachic Jews to be more Torah Observant. If you're thinking of converting, convert via Orthodoxy. If you cannot, converting via Reform or Conservative and then trying to go to the Orthodox shul is futile and will create hard feelings on both sides.

Someone more knowledgeable can feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
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Old 08-21-2019, 08:52 AM
 
Location: small Southern town balabusta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
If someone who converted R or C drops into an O shul for a single minyan, and presents himself as Jewish, it’s unlikely they’ll be discovered. Big shuls won’t care. Shuls that struggle to get 10 men will care greatly. Should that person continue to attend, it will surely be uncovered and the men will be really disappointed. These folks are easy to pick out. If you’ve not spend time around Torah Observant Jews, you are very different and easy to pick out.

Yes.

One time I contacted the Chassid Rabbi when I was on a trip, and he let me visit. I told him the whole story in e.mail. They were very nice. When I showed up, I planned to quietly observe, be under the radar, was properly dressed, knew most of the prayers, did not shake men's hands, but then stood over in the men's section inadvertently because I was there really early. Some man barked, "Get behind the curtain!" (the mechitza). I almost answered, "No, YOU get behind the curtain!"; thankfully, I did not. So my career as a Chabad visitor was blown up in the first 3 minutes. It was a beautiful service, though.
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Old 08-21-2019, 08:59 AM
 
Location: small Southern town balabusta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosends View Post
So let us say that there are 9 guys in a shul, waiting for a tenth so that they can start. A person walks in, wearing a kippah, and picks up a siddur. Odds are, the other 9 guys will start davening, assuming that the 10th is Jewish. No password. No secret handshake. And, depending on how time is pressing, no conversation. Afterwards people might ask about him (what's your name, where do you live and "how did you find out about our minyan") but just to be cordial. If he keeps showing up, people might strike up friendships and play Jewish geography. But if he sounds like he knows what he is talking about, even if he says "I was raised non-religious so I have trouble with praying", no one is going to press him for a conversion document or proof.

If he says "I'm a convert" (though I don't know why he would volunteer it) someone might ask for details. But if not, no one is going to ask.

If he shows up and there are already 10 men, no one might talk to him at all...and many modern Orthodox people don't use any "yeshivish" in conversation.

Well said, Rabbi. Yes, "Jewish geography" is a game I have often failed. Or "What was your mother's maiden name?" I failed that also.

I used to get, "What's your last name? Oh? Really? THAT'S interesting". (walks away).

That's why it's best for me, when making new friends whom I really respect, is to just give them a 2 minute synopsis. I've met the best people that way! I've been honored to see the glimpse into their kind hearts when they respond.
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Old 08-21-2019, 09:06 AM
 
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I wish my mom was Jewish , practice-wise( Is that a word?), not considered Jewish just because her grandmother used to be.
In my earlier post, I didn’t mean “code word “ literally. I should of put it in parentheses.
I just heard that some Jews don’t consider other Jews, Jewish.
That’s with a lot of stuff too though, not just religion. ( What’s “ authentic “ and what’s not)
I’m just going by a few things I read( which is why I’m glad I found you guys, to get real views from the “ horses mouth”, so to speak. )
I’ve been reading the books “ Becoming frum” by Sarah Benor and “The non- Orthodox Jews guide to Orthodox Jews”by David Baum and I just got the impression that they think differently towards Jews who aren’t Orthodox, as far as being real Jews.
It didn’t matter if they were converts or born Conservative or Reform.
I know, there are people like that in any group.
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Old 08-21-2019, 09:08 AM
 
Location: NJ
1,424 posts, read 511,657 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1+1=5 View Post
Well said, Rabbi. Yes, "Jewish geography" is a game I have often failed. Or "What was your mother's maiden name?" I failed that also.

I used to get, "What's your last name? Oh? Really? THAT'S interesting". (walks away).

That's why it's best for me, when making new friends whom I really respect, is to just give them a 2 minute synopsis. I've met the best people that way! I've been honored to see the glimpse into their kind hearts when they respond.
I've known some weird last names, so that wouldn't be much of a deal breaker (nor would I ask a mother's maiden name as part of any conversation, let alone as a deal breaker).

In my experience, if someone shows up, no one assumes that he or she is anything but Jewish unless told otherwise.
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Old 08-21-2019, 09:23 AM
 
4,008 posts, read 3,376,357 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
He’d be a Jew...wait, before or after he was born...
Of course this depends on what kind of conversation the mother had. If it was a conversion that did not include a lifelong commitment to observe all 613 mitzvos (and saying all wine and cheese in America is kosher, or driving to shul on Shabbos - those disqualify you as having had a proper halachic conversion), then you are not going to be universally accepted as a Jew. And not counted in a minyan of 10 Jewish men.

All that said, though, these converts should be treated with respect and encouraged to continue their journey to Yiddishkite. It takes guts and courage to declare oneself Jewish, whether you commit to Torah observance or not.
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Old 08-21-2019, 09:28 AM
 
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I’m not talking about davening now , in an Orthodox shul. I haven’t even been to a Reform or Conservative synagogue yet ,because I’m too nervous about going, though I know I’d be comfortable.
I can follow along in my siddur when I stream ,because they give the page numbers.
I then get lost sometimes when they’re on other pages ( that aren’t the next page).
It’d be nice to have someone sit next to me, so I could see what page is next, but I don’t like asking in person, plus my husband will probably be with me and they might not sit next to me if I’m not by myself ( not wanting to intrude, which I won’t be thinking of that at all)
I’d probably be afraid to actually go to a Orthodox shul anyway, even if I’ve been Jewish my whole life, that’s just my personality though.
People have always told me my whole life that “I’m afraid of my own shadow “, that’s not good.
It kept me out of trouble though and hanging out with the wrong kids.
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Old 08-21-2019, 09:32 AM
 
4,008 posts, read 3,376,357 times
Reputation: 1259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pumpkin mouse View Post
I wish my mom was Jewish , practice-wise( Is that a word?), not considered Jewish just because her grandmother used to be.
In my earlier post, I didn’t mean “code word “ literally. I should of put it in parentheses.
I just heard that some Jews don’t consider other Jews, Jewish.
That’s with a lot of stuff too though, not just religion. ( What’s “ authentic “ and what’s not)
I’m just going by a few things I read( which is why I’m glad I found you guys, to get real views from the “ horses mouth”, so to speak. )
I’ve been reading the books “ Becoming frum” by Sarah Benor and “The non- Orthodox Jews guide to Orthodox Jews”by David Baum and I just got the impression that they think differently towards Jews who aren’t Orthodox, as far as being real Jews.
It didn’t matter if they were converts or born Conservative or Reform.
I know, there are people like that in any group.
That’s a libel against Torah Observant Jews. We believe a Jew is a Jew, assuming they’re actually Jewish. I’ve never once heard an O Jew say that R or C Jews are less than fully Jewish. Of course your practices more closely mirror the goyim, but you don’t lose your Jewish status for that.

The bigger challenge comes in that many children of non halachic converts are unaware that their parent are not Jewish, so neither are they. They’re raised Jewish, and are never in a community of Jews who can or will tell them the truth. Give it another generation or two, and unless you have an unbroken masorah of your Jewishness, you’ll end up muddying the water. In the frum world, before a shiddach (marriage arrangement) is made, if there are R or C, or converts or BT’s in the mix, effort is clearly made to ascertain one’s halachic status as a Yid.
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