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Old 08-23-2019, 08:05 AM
 
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What about the Shabbos goy ( or whatever they nickname it) to turn things off and on, etc, or is that practice outdated?
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Old 08-23-2019, 10:12 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Pumpkin mouse View Post
What about the Shabbos goy ( or whatever they nickname it) to turn things off and on, etc, or is that practice outdated?

Jews aren't supposed to ask a non-Jew to do any work for us on the Sabbath. Some Jews give maybe not-so-subtle "hints" that they will accept help from a non-Jew in this regard, but rabbis I have known frown on the practice. Being driven in a car by a non-Jew to and from shul every Sabbath would definitely give the appearance that an arrangement has been made for the non-Jew to provide this service.
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Old 08-23-2019, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
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Originally Posted by 1+1=5 View Post
No. You can't ask a non-Jew to do something that you're forbidden to do.
Alot of Gentiles would greatly desire to do things for a Jew they couldn't do, had I the chance to spend the Sabbath driving Jews back and forth to synagogue, I would feel as if I hit the lottery, I would take no money for gas or service, and I would come out feeling like the Lord has blessed me.
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Old 08-23-2019, 12:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
Alot of Gentiles would greatly desire to do things for a Jew they couldn't do, had I the chance to spend the Sabbath driving Jews back and forth to synagogue, I would feel as if I hit the lottery, I would take no money for gas or service, and I would come out feeling like the Lord has blessed me.

You're a kind and generous individual, Hanni. I think it's a little more complicated than that, but I just want to say that I'm always touched by your enthusiastic support for your Jewish friends.
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Old 08-23-2019, 12:36 PM
 
Location: NJ
1,530 posts, read 521,374 times
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Originally Posted by Pumpkin mouse View Post
What about the Shabbos goy ( or whatever they nickname it) to turn things off and on, etc, or is that practice outdated?
That concept is generally misunderstood and misused

"In essence, your neighbors should not be asking you to do things for them, which they themselves are not allowed to do on Shabbat. This is a Talmudic principle, as derived from the Torah which states that on Shabbat, "creative activity should not BE DONE for you" - i.e. even if you are only asking someone else to do it.
The only exceptions are: when there is a commandment to be fulfilled, great monetary loss, or a health-related situation. Air conditioning is considered health-related, because if things get too hot, people (especially the elderly, etc.) could faint or be exposed to other dangers.
Even in the above-mentioned cases, a Jew is only allowed to ask a non-Jew to do a rabbinic-level action. (Mishnah Berurah 307:19-24)"

from here.

for more rules, see here.
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Old 08-26-2019, 01:26 PM
 
4,031 posts, read 3,388,257 times
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Originally Posted by rosends View Post
That concept is generally misunderstood and misused

"In essence, your neighbors should not be asking you to do things for them, which they themselves are not allowed to do on Shabbat. This is a Talmudic principle, as derived from the Torah which states that on Shabbat, "creative activity should not BE DONE for you" - i.e. even if you are only asking someone else to do it.
The only exceptions are: when there is a commandment to be fulfilled, great monetary loss, or a health-related situation. Air conditioning is considered health-related, because if things get too hot, people (especially the elderly, etc.) could faint or be exposed to other dangers.
Even in the above-mentioned cases, a Jew is only allowed to ask a non-Jew to do a rabbinic-level action. (Mishnah Berurah 307:19-24)"

from here.

for more rules, see here.
Changing the AC setting on Shabbos is likely a shaila (something that must be halachically judged on the exact details of the specific situation by a qualified Orthodox rabbi) every single time. Perhaps you should be careful giving a blanket “heter” in this forum? Stumbling block in front of a blind person? Better to come out machmir and work backwards?
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Old 08-26-2019, 02:45 PM
 
Location: NJ
1,530 posts, read 521,374 times
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Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
Changing the AC setting on Shabbos is likely a shaila (something that must be halachically judged on the exact details of the specific situation by a qualified Orthodox rabbi) every single time. Perhaps you should be careful giving a blanket “heter” in this forum? Stumbling block in front of a blind person? Better to come out machmir and work backwards?
I don't recall giving a heter or issuing anything like a psak, especially since no shailah was asked of me. I said that the concept was misunderstood then presented direct a quote from one site which discussed some of the intricacies and difficulties and gave a reference to the M"B, and then a citation to another site for more research.
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Old 08-26-2019, 05:09 PM
 
4,031 posts, read 3,388,257 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosends View Post
I don't recall giving a heter or issuing anything like a psak, especially since no shailah was asked of me. I said that the concept was misunderstood then presented direct a quote from one site which discussed some of the intricacies and difficulties and gave a reference to the M"B, and then a citation to another site for more research.
All good. I just re-read your post again, and it still sounds like you gave the forum “permission” to adjust the AC on Shabbos if they are hot. Of course, 95% of the posters in this forum appear to drive on Shabbos, so why worry about the AC.
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Old 08-26-2019, 05:15 PM
 
Location: NJ
1,530 posts, read 521,374 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
All good. I just re-read your post again, and it still sounds like you gave the forum “permission” to adjust the AC on Shabbos if they are hot. Of course, 95% of the posters in this forum appear to drive on Shabbos, so why worry about the AC.
I didn't give anyone any permission. The section from aish that I quoted included the idea that health issues (like some cases of AC) are one reason where one could use amira l'akum. Direct quote, from the website. Not my words and no shailah for me to pasken on, not that I would anyway.
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Old 08-26-2019, 05:51 PM
 
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Well I certainly agree that amira l’akum is one of the most misunderstood and abused Shabbos halachos.

Oh, and one more way where there’s permissibility with a Shabbos goy: for the benefit of the kehilla and not an individual, a goy can switch a light or a thermostat. And you can even ask them directly without hints.
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