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But here's the question: How would the Rabbi KNOW that the man did not have a halachically "kosher" conversion? If a convert shows up and presents himself as Jewish (which of course he considers himself to be), I cannot see how anyone can distinguish.
The Rabbi wouldn't know. And, unless one decides to officially become a member of the congregation, one needn't present the certificate of conversion that is issued by every branch of Judaism to those who convert.
You probably already know that Judaism has pretty strict rules about not bringing up someone’s life pre-conversion. It’s considered very rude, and is frowned upon by Jewish law. So regardless of how you choose to present yourself at an Orthodox shul, don’t feel obligated to go into the nitty-gritty of your conversion back story. As Aliza Hausman, a conversion counselor and convert herself told me, “it’s really nobody’s business.”
It will come up in any conversation. You might be asked which Rabbi converted you. Or what shul you attended. Then when you become a member, you need to list that information.
I'm very distressed that I lost my conversion certificate in the move down here. I wonder if the shul kept a copy.
If someone who converted R or C drops into an O shul for a single minyan, and presents himself as Jewish, it’s unlikely they’ll be discovered. Big shuls won’t care. Shuls that struggle to get 10 men will care greatly. Should that person continue to attend, it will surely be uncovered and the men will be really disappointed. These folks are easy to pick out. If you’ve not spend time around Torah Observant Jews, you are very different and easy to pick out.
AFAIK, what is not appropriate for the average Yid to discuss might be very appropriate for the Rabbi of the congregation to investigate tactfully in private. And, as TFF correctly points out, some things are more obvious to the knowledgeable than may be generally believed.
Wouldn’t more observant Orthodox have different speech patterns/ accents, words they call things , or how they pray will be different?
Do all Orthodox speak Yiddish also?
Do they have certain code words they use among themselves ?
I might be thinking of a stricter sect within a movement, like the Satmar.
Wouldn’t it be considered mean to let a more Orthodox sect think you’re Orthodox and count you towards a minyan, if you’re Reform or Conservative ?
Wouldn’t more observant Orthodox have different speech patterns/ accents, words they call things , or how they pray will be different?
Do all Orthodox speak Yiddish also?
Do they have certain code words they use among themselves ?
I might be thinking of a stricter sect within a movement, like the Satmar.
Wouldn’t it be considered mean to let a more Orthodox sect think you’re Orthodox and count you towards a minyan, if you’re Reform or Conservative ?
This really only comes into play if you've converted. If you were born to a Jewish mother and stop in at an Orthodox shul, you will be counted toward a minyan even if you're a Reform Jew. At least that's the case with the Lebavitch.
Wouldn’t more observant Orthodox have different speech patterns/ accents, words they call things , or how they pray will be different?
Do all Orthodox speak Yiddish also?
Do they have certain code words they use among themselves ?
I might be thinking of a stricter sect within a movement, like the Satmar.
Wouldn’t it be considered mean to let a more Orthodox sect think you’re Orthodox and count you towards a minyan, if you’re Reform or Conservative ?
Many Orthodox sprinkle their vocabulary with Yeshivish – which are words familiar to those who studied in an Orthodox yeshiva.
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Do they have certain code words they use among themselves ?
Not unless you want to count Yeshivish as "code words." I don't think they have any secret handshakes, either.
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I might be thinking of a stricter sect within a movement, like the Satmar.
Yeshivish should be familiar to most English-speaking Haredim.
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Wouldn’t it be considered mean to let a more Orthodox sect think you’re Orthodox and count you towards a minyan, if you’re Reform or Conservative ?
If there is reason to believe that it might upset members in the congregation, then you shouldn't do it. Personally, I think it's mean that there might be some Jews who feel called upon to scrutinize the background of other Jews to the point of making other Jews self-conscious and fearful about being "picked out."
So let us say that there are 9 guys in a shul, waiting for a tenth so that they can start. A person walks in, wearing a kippah, and picks up a siddur. Odds are, the other 9 guys will start davening, assuming that the 10th is Jewish. No password. No secret handshake. And, depending on how time is pressing, no conversation. Afterwards people might ask about him (what's your name, where do you live and "how did you find out about our minyan") but just to be cordial. If he keeps showing up, people might strike up friendships and play Jewish geography. But if he sounds like he knows what he is talking about, even if he says "I was raised non-religious so I have trouble with praying", no one is going to press him for a conversion document or proof.
If he says "I'm a convert" (though I don't know why he would volunteer it) someone might ask for details. But if not, no one is going to ask.
If he shows up and there are already 10 men, no one might talk to him at all...and many modern Orthodox people don't use any "yeshivish" in conversation.
This really only comes into play if you've converted. If you were born to a Jewish mother and stop in at an Orthodox shul, you will be counted toward a minyan even if you're a Reform Jew. At least that's the case with the Lebavitch.
What about if the man's mother is a Jewish convert?
What about if the man's mother is a Jewish convert?
He’d be a Jew...wait, before or after he was born...
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