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Old 08-23-2019, 01:36 PM
 
Location: US
28,196 posts, read 15,252,887 times
Reputation: 1782

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Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynborndad View Post
I did not know that midrash, thanks.

Chazal are always rewarding to read! Even if this midrash, is, well kind of odd in some ways, it does resolve the question, and can get us thinking about the value of humanity vs the value of buildings (and rituals? or maybe thats taking the mussar too far)

Interesting questions about "perfection" and the nature of divine choice.

Also of course about who can choose to build the Beit M
hamikdash, and in what circumstances.

And Moshes ability for "perfection".


interesting question - did Hashem TELL Moshe this was why he could not enter? Given Moshe's earlier intervention on behalf of am Yisrael's life, one suspects he would have accepted this, once it was explained. (but was Moshe not capable of refraining from building the Beis HaMikdash? Or was this something Hashem could NOT share with Moshe?)

OTOH, why are we told that Moshe could not enter the land because of his sin? This midrash implies that even had Moshe never sinned, he could not have entered the land? Perhaps because the details of this (the sinning by am yisrael, or the imperfection of Shlomo's beit hamikdash) could NOT be shared with Moshe, or with the people. Raises questions on when some truths must be hidden, and when some other than literal truth is justified.
Wasnít there something about G-d taking Moisheís body and burying it in a secret place lest the Israelites would end up worshiping him at his grave or something?...I seem to remember reading something like that long ago...
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Old 08-23-2019, 02:10 PM
 
Location: NJ
1,421 posts, read 511,281 times
Reputation: 615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Wasnít there something about G-d taking Moisheís body and burying it in a secret place lest the Israelites would end up worshiping him at his grave or something?...I seem to remember reading something like that long ago...
The Chizkuni on Devarim 34;6 says that the location was hidden so non-Jewih necromancers can't come and exploit the location.

the Torah Temimah says that if the Jews knew the location, they would have gone there when the temple was threatened and prayed and Moshe would have nullified that decree.
שגלוי וידוע לפני הקב"ה שעתיד ביהמ"ק לחרב וישראל יגלו מארצם, שמא יבאו לקברו של משה ויבכו ויתחננו ועומד משה ומבטל את הגזירה

the idea you quote is referenced here, but without citation
https://judaism.stackexchange.com/qu...e-buried-alone
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Old Yesterday, 09:35 PM
 
3,997 posts, read 3,375,726 times
Reputation: 1259
Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynborndad View Post
I did not know that midrash, thanks.

Chazal are always rewarding to read! Even if this midrash, is, well kind of odd in some ways, it does resolve the question, and can get us thinking about the value of humanity vs the value of buildings (and rituals? or maybe thats taking the mussar too far)

Interesting questions about "perfection" and the nature of divine choice.

Also of course about who can choose to build the Beit M
hamikdash, and in what circumstances.

And Moshes ability for "perfection".


interesting question - did Hashem TELL Moshe this was why he could not enter? Given Moshe's earlier intervention on behalf of am Yisrael's life, one suspects he would have accepted this, once it was explained. (but was Moshe not capable of refraining from building the Beis HaMikdash? Or was this something Hashem could NOT share with Moshe?)

OTOH, why are we told that Moshe could not enter the land because of his sin? This midrash implies that even had Moshe never sinned, he could not have entered the land? Perhaps because the details of this (the sinning by am yisrael, or the imperfection of Shlomo's beit hamikdash) could NOT be shared with Moshe, or with the people. Raises questions on when some truths must be hidden, and when some other than literal truth is justified.
I know itís a gamara, not a midrash. Iíll have to look - but I think itís in Meseches Pesachim.

My Rav taught me to think of it this way. G-d forbid you crash your car, but Bíh youíre not injured. In that case, you should say Baruch HaShem He took it out on my car and not on me. One almost could say ďhatov uímaytivĒ (everything is for the good).
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Old Today, 04:49 AM
 
Location: US
28,196 posts, read 15,252,887 times
Reputation: 1782
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosends View Post
The Chizkuni on Devarim 34;6 says that the location was hidden so non-Jewih necromancers can't come and exploit the location.

the Torah Temimah says that if the Jews knew the location, they would have gone there when the temple was threatened and prayed and Moshe would have nullified that decree.
שגלוי וידוע לפני הקב"ה שעתיד ביהמ"ק לחרב וישראל יגלו מארצם, שמא יבאו לקברו של משה ויבכו ויתחננו ועומד משה ומבטל את הגזירה

the idea you quote is referenced here, but without citation
https://judaism.stackexchange.com/qu...e-buried-alone
Thanks, Rabbi...
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Old Today, 06:15 AM
 
78 posts, read 10,031 times
Reputation: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by chief scum View Post
Moses got to watch the Israelites enter the promised land after he had led them through the wilderness all those years. He got to see the fulfillment of God's word to Abraham, and that it wasn't a dead end road. When I look inside the Ark of the Covenant I see Aron's staff that budded, which tells me that God does not lead down a dead end road. Moses did not come to a bitter end, he got to see God's blessing of Abraham fulfilled, as the authority God placed on him then rested on Joshua. The righteous embrace that, otherwise everything would die with them.

As far as the word deserving goes, personally I don't ever want to feel deserving of anything, rather being thankful. And I am sure that Moses was most thankful to get to watch the Israelites finish the journey.

P.S. Also, when Moses didn't follow God's word in that moment, and then struck the rock twice, as the first time didn't give pause. God did not leave Moses standing there looking like a fool, as water gushed from the rock, after he struck it the second time.
I need to make a correction that was brought to my attention. I am not sure that Moses got to watch the Israelites enter the land, it does say Moses got to see all the land. It says Moses was 120 when he died and that is the time when he blessed the Israelites and Joshua succeeded him.

I always write from memory when I write, unless I am making a direct quote. And I am always thankful for correction. Because when sharing with others, getting it right is of most importance.
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Old Today, 07:52 AM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,981 posts, read 55,300,483 times
Reputation: 67794
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel NewYork View Post
I suppose that our visitor to the forum also stated what he believes to be true. What he probably doesn't understand is that he was way out of line when he told TFF "you can't call yourself a Jew..." and then he spouts what sounds like a Christian repudiation of Judaism's oral tradition.

And I'm not even going to get into our visitor's statement of "The root of the words you wrote is traced to the serpent..."

People can believe what they want and question others in a respectful manner, but they have no business coming to a Judaism forum and telling Jews here that "you can't call yourself a Jew." That's not respectful. I may not always be on the same page with TFF, but he can certainly call himself a Jew and I give him credit for knowing his stuff. I can't speak for Pruz or others on this forum, but I suspect they might agree with me on this.
As a gentile who is interested in learning about other religions and cultures, I've found TFF to be a great source of learning about Judaism here, even though much of it is over my head.
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Old Today, 08:00 AM
 
78 posts, read 10,031 times
Reputation: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by chief scum View Post
I need to make a correction that was brought to my attention. I am not sure that Moses got to watch the Israelites enter the land, it does say Moses got to see all the land. It says Moses was 120 when he died and that is the time when he blessed the Israelites and Joshua succeeded him.

I always write from memory when I write, unless I am making a direct quote. And I am always thankful for correction. Because when sharing with others, getting it right is of most importance.
A P.S. It does say in Joshua that Moses died before they crossed the river Jordan.
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