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Old 08-26-2019, 02:05 PM
 
99 posts, read 16,561 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel NewYork View Post
"Jew by choice" is just another way of saying "convert."

https://www.chabad.org/parshah/artic...-by-Choice.htm
Sorry, I sometimes canít explain in print as well as I explain things in person. I meant that I didnít think you could just convert. You had to be born Jewish, or marry a Jewish spouse, to be considered Jewish.
I would of started reading more ,a long time ago. I only read Jewish history and basic beliefs before that. I didnít read anything about being able to convert though , in those books.
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Old 08-26-2019, 02:09 PM
 
858 posts, read 103,205 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pumpkin mouse View Post
Sorry, I sometimes canít explain in print as well as I explain things in person. I meant that I didnít think you could just convert. You had to be born Jewish, or marry a Jewish spouse, to be considered Jewish.
I would of started reading more ,a long time ago. I only read Jewish history and basic beliefs before that. I didnít read anything about being able to convert though , in those books.

Marrying a Jew doesn't make you Jewish. You still need to convert.
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Old 08-26-2019, 02:13 PM
 
858 posts, read 103,205 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pumpkin mouse View Post
What if you do have documentation, but you still want to study , to make sure you learn everything and especially learn how to pronounce Hebrew and learn the blessings correctly?
I want to experience the Mikva and get a certificate that I can frame ( or is that in bad taste?)
Would they still let you take classes and use the Mikva though ?
Going to the mikvah comes at the end of one's studies for converting to Judaism, and after meeting with the Beit Din (rabbinic court of law) and receiving their approval of your conversion. The certificate one receives is confirmation of one's successful conversion to Judaism.

You said you have documentation of your Jewish ancestry? You would need to show that to a rabbi.
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Old 08-26-2019, 02:52 PM
 
10,742 posts, read 15,949,038 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
Was that the case? I thought the mother was a practicing Chrstian?



Mother has to be a Jew.

Does not say, if she to be a Zen Buddhist or follower of cult of Ra. Simply says, she has to be a female Jewish BLOODLINE.

Also, in case of doubt, 2 rabbis need to issue a statement that this particular person is a Jew.
Maternal lineage was not always so. Before, it was paternal lineage, but it was changed to maternal around 4th century, I believe.
Tora or not, it makes very common sense.

It is all about blood and bloodline. With mother, at least, you know 100% who parent is and whose blood child has. With father, who knows, really.

You should rather ask yourselves, what is it in the blood that is so valued to ensure, that it is not fouled by add ons.
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Old 08-26-2019, 02:55 PM
 
10,742 posts, read 15,949,038 times
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Sorry, forgot to mention.
Anything less than 80% in DNA testing is a joke. DNA testing has standard 15% error. FIFTEEN. 1% of something is a joke. Though it sells, as many want to be Jews.
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Old 08-26-2019, 03:07 PM
 
435 posts, read 131,889 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB from NC View Post
My post was simple:
1. An unbroken maternal line is needed.
2. Paterilineal descent is not valid.

Anything else you chose to read into it is on you.
False, in several ways.

First off, that is not what you said.

Second, an unbroken maternal line is NOT needed - a valid conversion will suffice.

Third, you DID post "If your mother's mother's mother's mother's....... was Jewish, then you are as well." I will point out that your statement is NOT a statement that an unbroken maternal line is needed; it is a statement that it is sufficient. As I have posted already, that is probably not always true, and you should consult your LORD (Local Orthodox Rabbi Dude) for details.

I will not try to convince you, because I know that I am not competent to argue the principles involved. However, it happens that I know that I am correct, and probably shouldn't even have used the word "probably" in my prior post, because I am rather well aware of a fairly recent case where THE bais din of a major US city spent a year or two (or more) trying to figure out whether the son of a known born-Jewish mother (Jewish both sides) was Jewish. In the meantime, they issued a ruling that he was NOT to be counted in a minyan. Eventually, he turned out Jewish, and was counted. I do not know the exact details, but I believe that it related to her motivation to follow the Yoshke-lovers' religion (that of her husband). The point is that the fact that a real bais din ha'ir took that long to figure out whether the son of a Jewish mother was Jewish clearly PROVES that matrilineal descent alone does not ALWAYS make the descendant Jewish.

Regarding your new point, 2. above, all should agree that patrilineal descent is irrelevant to determination of whether one is Jewish. However, it has quite a bit to do with whether or not one is a Kohen, a Levi, or neither.
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Old 08-26-2019, 03:07 PM
 
99 posts, read 16,561 times
Reputation: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel NewYork View Post
Marrying a Jew doesn't make you Jewish. You still need to convert.
It gave a person a valid ď reason ď to want to convert,in the eyes of the Jewish faith ( so I thought). Thatís if theyíre doing it for a valid reason, like liking what they see in Judaism vs doing it only for marriage reasons.
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Old 08-26-2019, 03:07 PM
 
858 posts, read 103,205 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
It is all about blood and bloodline.

I was taught that it's not on account of blood that Jews descend from their mothers. It's on account that a Jewish soul passes only from mother to child. I don't know where that comes from, though. Maybe Rabbi Rosen knows? I'd love to know where that comes from, or whether I'm even remembering it right.
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Old 08-26-2019, 03:30 PM
 
435 posts, read 131,889 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel NewYork View Post
I was taught that it's not on account of blood that Jews descend from their mothers. It's on account that a Jewish soul passes only from mother to child. I don't know where that comes from, though. Maybe Rabbi Rosen knows? I'd love to know where that comes from, or whether I'm even remembering it right.
I don't know much about it. I have heard other stories, but I like yours, too. I reckon there are a number of explanations, which you may be able to get by asking a number of people. I also believe that there is a standard orthodox answer which DOES make sense. However, to heretics like me, it is not the only answer that makes sense.

Happy hunting!
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Old 08-26-2019, 03:43 PM
 
858 posts, read 103,205 times
Reputation: 504
Quote:
Originally Posted by ben Shunamit View Post
I don't know much about it. I have heard other stories, but I like yours, too. I reckon there are a number of explanations, which you may be able to get by asking a number of people. I also believe that there is a standard orthodox answer which DOES make sense. However, to heretics like me, it is not the only answer that makes sense.

Happy hunting!

Thanks for your response! Maybe it's a bubbeh mayseh. But I do recall hearing that!
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