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Old 08-26-2019, 03:43 PM
 
Location: US
28,230 posts, read 15,288,414 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
Love you JB. But totally wrong. Nobody should believe this.
Do you have any proof of this?...Like Halacha?...
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Old 08-26-2019, 04:00 PM
 
Location: US
28,230 posts, read 15,288,414 times
Reputation: 1782
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel NewYork View Post
I was taught that it's not on account of blood that Jews descend from their mothers. It's on account that a Jewish soul passes only from mother to child. I don't know where that comes from, though. Maybe Rabbi Rosen knows? I'd love to know where that comes from, or whether I'm even remembering it right.
It has to do with what the Torah says...Since the child is more strongly tied to the mother then whatever she believes the child will also believe...This is why it is forbidden to give your son to a gentile because your grandchild will grow up to be a gentile...But, a Jewish daughter marrying a gentile would have no affect on the child because he would grow up to believe what the mother believes, Judaism...
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Old 08-26-2019, 04:17 PM
 
Location: NJ
1,529 posts, read 519,544 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel NewYork View Post
I was taught that it's not on account of blood that Jews descend from their mothers. It's on account that a Jewish soul passes only from mother to child. I don't know where that comes from, though. Maybe Rabbi Rosen knows? I'd love to know where that comes from, or whether I'm even remembering it right.
I heard that one major reason was because one can be sure of who the mother is. Another could be because the influence the mother has on a child is more powerful than a father. I don't know. It is worth researching. (but side note, matrilineal descent has its roots in the torah text)
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Old 08-26-2019, 04:36 PM
 
858 posts, read 103,205 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
It has to do with what the Torah says...Since the child is more strongly tied to the mother then whatever she believes the child will also believe...This is why it is forbidden to give your son to a gentile because your grandchild will grow up to be a gentile...But, a Jewish daughter marrying a gentile would have no affect on the child because he would grow up to believe what the mother believes, Judaism...

Thanks! Well, we would hope that the child would grow up to believe what his mother believes. Maybe if there is something to the story about a Jewish soul passing from mother to child, that would have an influence?
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Old 08-26-2019, 04:40 PM
 
858 posts, read 103,205 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosends View Post
I heard that one major reason was because one can be sure of who the mother is. Another could be because the influence the mother has on a child is more powerful than a father. I don't know. It is worth researching. (but side note, matrilineal descent has its roots in the torah text)

Thanks, Rabbi! I remember also that the thing about the Jewish soul passing from mother to child also has something to do with why we pray for a person's recovery from illness using that person's mother's name instead of his father's. Whereas, on all legal documents (like the ketubah) we use the father's name. But, again, I'm not sure if I'm remembering this right.
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Old 08-26-2019, 05:04 PM
 
4,023 posts, read 3,383,650 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel NewYork View Post
Thanks, Rabbi! I remember also that the thing about the Jewish soul passing from mother to child also has something to do with why we pray for a person's recovery from illness using that person's mother's name instead of his father's. Whereas, on all legal documents (like the ketubah) we use the father's name. But, again, I'm not sure if I'm remembering this right.
We use the mothers name when someone is sick because women are known to be more compassionate, and we are trying to spark Hashem’s compassion to provide a refuah sheleima.
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Old 08-26-2019, 06:27 PM
 
Location: Long Island
1,741 posts, read 1,411,342 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ben Shunamit View Post
False, in several ways.

First off, that is not what you said.

Second, an unbroken maternal line is NOT needed - a valid conversion will suffice.

Third, you DID post "If your mother's mother's mother's mother's....... was Jewish, then you are as well." I will point out that your statement is NOT a statement that an unbroken maternal line is needed; it is a statement that it is sufficient. As I have posted already, that is probably not always true, and you should consult your LORD (Local Orthodox Rabbi Dude) for details.

I will not try to convince you, because I know that I am not competent to argue the principles involved. However, it happens that I know that I am correct, and probably shouldn't even have used the word "probably" in my prior post, because I am rather well aware of a fairly recent case where THE bais din of a major US city spent a year or two (or more) trying to figure out whether the son of a known born-Jewish mother (Jewish both sides) was Jewish. In the meantime, they issued a ruling that he was NOT to be counted in a minyan. Eventually, he turned out Jewish, and was counted. I do not know the exact details, but I believe that it related to her motivation to follow the Yoshke-lovers' religion (that of her husband). The point is that the fact that a real bais din ha'ir took that long to figure out whether the son of a Jewish mother was Jewish clearly PROVES that matrilineal descent alone does not ALWAYS make the descendant Jewish.

Regarding your new point, 2. above, all should agree that patrilineal descent is irrelevant to determination of whether one is Jewish. However, it has quite a bit to do with whether or not one is a Kohen, a Levi, or neither.
That was the substance of my post. As I told TFF, if you choose to read more into it, then that's on you.
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Old 08-26-2019, 06:40 PM
 
4,023 posts, read 3,383,650 times
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Originally Posted by JB from NC View Post
That was the substance of my post. As I told TFF, if you choose to read more into it, then that's on you.
Ok, I understand. Thanks.
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Old 08-26-2019, 06:54 PM
 
435 posts, read 131,889 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB from NC View Post
That was the substance of my post. As I told TFF, if you choose to read more into it, then that's on you.
No, it was NOT the substance of your post. The substance of your post was, is, and will be your post. I didn't read anything into your post, but if you can't read your own post, that is your problem, not mine.
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Old 08-26-2019, 07:42 PM
 
858 posts, read 103,205 times
Reputation: 504
Quote:
Originally Posted by ben Shunamit View Post
No, it was NOT the substance of your post. The substance of your post was, is, and will be your post. I didn't read anything into your post, but if you can't read your own post, that is your problem, not mine.

C'mon guys.
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