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Old 09-01-2019, 08:16 PM
 
882 posts, read 106,604 times
Reputation: 504

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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
For the last decade, this forumís regular members generally refrained from posting things antithetical to Torah. And now we have Jews in this forum taunting its more religious members with videos that are entirely halachically forbidden. Itís the equivalent of you waving a ham and cheese sandwich in my face, and as usual, complaining to the Mods when I/we defend ourselves against your horrific and skilled attacks. You accuse me of having a trigger? Yes, I do have one. When I see Jews attack Torah values.

Was that Chabad link that Richard posted a "taunt"? Did you even bother to read it?
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Old 09-01-2019, 08:21 PM
 
4,030 posts, read 3,386,182 times
Reputation: 1260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pumpkin mouse View Post
This was only a movie with actors in it, It wasnít a real Jewish wedding, with real Jewish people, plus they probably had a few things wrong in the movie .
It would be wrong to put something real and private and sacred on for all to see.
You are correct Pumpkin. But the video had women singing. It makes no difference to a Jewish man if the woman is Jewish or not. Itís strictly forbidden.

If I didnít know what was on that link, and I clicked the link, I would be transgressing the Torah with even a few seconds of video. You seem like a decent person who would never want to put your fellow human in such a compromising position.
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Old 09-01-2019, 08:23 PM
 
4,030 posts, read 3,386,182 times
Reputation: 1260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel NewYork View Post
Was that Chabad link that Richard posted a "taunt"? Did you even bother to read it?
I read it, and I was glad he posted a link that supports my POV.
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Old 09-01-2019, 08:25 PM
 
882 posts, read 106,604 times
Reputation: 504
Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
You are correct Pumpkin. But the video had women singing. It makes no difference to a Jewish man if the woman is Jewish or not. It’s strictly forbidden.

If I didn’t know what was on that link, and I clicked the link, I would be transgressing the Torah with even a few seconds of video. You seem like a decent person who would never want to put your fellow human in such a compromising position.

How about this? From now on whenever anyone here wants to celebrate something that is culturally Jewish, whether it be the Barry Sisters singing some old Yiddish melodies, or a scene from Fiddler on the Roof or The Chosen, we post a NSFF ("Not Suitable For Frum") warning as well.

This way, you can avoid being tainted by those of us who enjoy such videos, and we can still enjoy those aspects of our culture which are dear to us.
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Old 09-01-2019, 09:15 PM
 
Location: US
28,242 posts, read 15,299,431 times
Reputation: 1786
Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
I read it, and I was glad he posted a link that supports my POV.
I donít think it really supports your point of view, I believe it pointed out that it is a minhag in certain OCs...

ďSeveral halachic (Jewish law) authorities are of the opinion that a recording or a radio transmitted singing voice of a woman who one does not personally know would not be actually prohibited. It is the custom however in most orthodox circles for men to refrain from hearing a woman sing in any format through any medium.Ē
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Old 09-01-2019, 09:33 PM
 
108 posts, read 17,428 times
Reputation: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel NewYork View Post
There's a question as to whether Miriam actually sang. But here's a link to an interesting article from Chabad on the subject: https://www.chabad.org/library/artic...riams-Song.htm


Edited to add:


Pumpkin Mouse, here's a Hebrew name for you (Adiela bat Akran) that I've anagrammed from the Hebrew letters that translate into your screen name:

אני דלעת-עכברה ani dla'at-akbarah "I am Pumpkin Mouse"
=
עדיאלה בת עכרן Adiela bat Akran "Jewel of G-d" "daughter of" a member of the tribe of Asher mentioned in Numbers 1:13

I like trying to find the closest Hebrew letters that make up different names in English. I can only read a few words in Hebrew. I donít know what Iím saying though. The only words that I know are the same words they use in blessing and certain I canít read without vowels, at all.
I also read VERY slowly, and it takes me forever to pronounce one word.
I sound like Beavis and Butthead when Iím trying to read elementary Hebrew.
In the Siddur, I go by the transliteration. I can follow along with the page number, then they start chanting really fast, and I lose my place. I notice they skip a lot , and move around in the Siddur very quickly.
Some of the blessings , I know parts of them by rote.
Can you tell me a little bit about the tribe of Asher?
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Old 09-01-2019, 09:51 PM
 
882 posts, read 106,604 times
Reputation: 504
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pumpkin mouse View Post
I like trying to find the closest Hebrew letters that make up different names in English.
I like to do that, too!

Quote:
Can you tell me a little bit about the tribe of Asher?
Here's a link to a posting I did on the Twelve Tribes and how each one represents a different personality aspect among our people. Try to see which one you might be. Mine was easy: I'm Naphtali Ė "The Free Spirit." "Twelve Tribes Ė Twelve Paths"


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Old 09-02-2019, 06:38 AM
 
Location: NJ
1,530 posts, read 520,562 times
Reputation: 633
Here is what I understand:

There are things that are considered unsuitable or inappropriate based on various codes of morals and ethics.

The line of what is OK and what isn't is not agreed upon. In Judaism, there are many ways to draw that line. Some might be agreed upon (an image of an unclothed person would generally be accepted to be a line-crosser and sensitivity to those who are bothered by it would overwhelm those who say "but it doesn't bother me").

It is impossible to accommodate one line without alienating those who see another line as the sine qua non of their belief.

In the current case, the line has to do with media beyond simple text (though that, too, has lines...fortunately, we haven't had to deal with them yet).

So I see 2 solutions (maybe three...give me a moment).

1. As RNY said in post #44, place a tag on material (NSFF or the like). However, that requires anticipating what any version of Frum would be upset by.
1a. Require that tag but with details -- a description of the content in the body of the message which contains it, so no one will be caught off guard by a random click.
2. Refrain from any and all content other than typed text and we can wrestle with text's problems eventually.
3. Have separate threads specifically for audio and/or video -- either catchall threads, or ones with the equivalent of ratings ("In this thread, all video and audio will be of people talking" "In this thread, it is appropriate to post video of women singing in groups" etc). You will end up with many threads, each accommodating a particular sensibility.

The underlying question of "whom does this forum address" is as problematic as any central identity question in Judaism. The standard joke in Judaism is that 'every Jew says "I'm correct. Anyone to the right of me is crazy, and anyone to the left of me isn't Jewish enough.'

Even though we all might agree that certain people aren't Jewish enough to claim Judaism in this form those are the fringes, beyond the pale of anything akin to normative though (read: Christians, Black Hebrews and such).

Just some thoughts.
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Old 09-02-2019, 06:58 AM
 
882 posts, read 106,604 times
Reputation: 504
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosends View Post
Here is what I understand:

There are things that are considered unsuitable or inappropriate based on various codes of morals and ethics.

The line of what is OK and what isn't is not agreed upon. In Judaism, there are many ways to draw that line. Some might be agreed upon (an image of an unclothed person would generally be accepted to be a line-crosser and sensitivity to those who are bothered by it would overwhelm those who say "but it doesn't bother me").

It is impossible to accommodate one line without alienating those who see another line as the sine qua non of their belief.

In the current case, the line has to do with media beyond simple text (though that, too, has lines...fortunately, we haven't had to deal with them yet).

So I see 2 solutions (maybe three...give me a moment).

1. As RNY said in post #44, place a tag on material (NSFF or the like). However, that requires anticipating what any version of Frum would be upset by.
1a. Require that tag but with details -- a description of the content in the body of the message which contains it, so no one will be caught off guard by a random click.
2. Refrain from any and all content other than typed text and we can wrestle with text's problems eventually.
3. Have separate threads specifically for audio and/or video -- either catchall threads, or ones with the equivalent of ratings ("In this thread, all video and audio will be of people talking" "In this thread, it is appropriate to post video of women singing in groups" etc). You will end up with many threads, each accommodating a particular sensibility.

The underlying question of "whom does this forum address" is as problematic as any central identity question in Judaism. The standard joke in Judaism is that 'every Jew says "I'm correct. Anyone to the right of me is crazy, and anyone to the left of me isn't Jewish enough.'

Even though we all might agree that certain people aren't Jewish enough to claim Judaism in this form those are the fringes, beyond the pale of anything akin to normative though (read: Christians, Black Hebrews and such).

Just some thoughts.

Thank you, Rabbi, for your wisdom and input. I don't deliberately set out to offend anybody, and I honestly prefer peaceful solutions to problems. Bottom line, though, is this: While I'll try to strive for peace, I am not going to suppress the joy I get from my own Jewishness. And I don't believe that anyone else here should, either.

P.S. Are you allowed to listen to the Barry Sisters? Because, if you are, I highly recommend them.
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Old 09-02-2019, 07:10 AM
 
Location: NJ
1,530 posts, read 520,562 times
Reputation: 633
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel NewYork View Post
Thank you, Rabbi, for your wisdom and input. I don't deliberately set out to offend anybody, and I honestly prefer peaceful solutions to problems. Bottom line, though, is this: While I'll try to strive for peace, I am not going to suppress the joy I get from my own Jewishness. And I don't believe that anyone else here should, either.

P.S. Are you allowed to listen to the Barry Sisters? Because, if you are, I highly recommend them.
The concern is about when one person's joy is expressed through a form, that to others is contrary to how they embrace their Judaism.

And extreme example (not at all what you were doing, but we test things out by pushing to extreme). What if someone wanted to celebrate God's perfection in creating man's form by posting pictures of naked people. This would be defensible within that person's understanding of how we admire what God created. What if another wanted to celebrate the ritual of putting on Tefillin by posting pictures of Madonna wearing tefillin? A third person who does not see current value or religious significance in the laws of Kashrut starts posting Rosh Hashana recipes which break very basic laws of kashrut. Would it make sense for someone to whom thise ideas are seriously problematic to say "Hey, I don't come here to see stuff that destroys my inner light of Judaism"? Or should that person say "these are all valid expressions of Judaism and I should just roll with it"?

Just thoughts.

Also, as to the Barry Sisters, I haven't heard of them. My tastes run closer to Twisted Sister.
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