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The pattern since has been to thoroughly partake in the seasonal joy of an American holiday, with a day off from work. Hanukah, to me, is a celebration of a military victory, important mostly by its juxtaposition to Gentile holidays. Hanukah, like Christmas, is where it is on the calendar to celebrate the winter solstice, when things start brightening. Religious observances, I reserve for my Jewish holidays.
Ironically, my son thinks that Chanukah is a mostly made up holiday to soften the edges for kids around the deluge of the Christmas season. He's married to a gentile but they are more secular than anything although he's promised me if they have kids, they'll raise them as Jews, which of course makes me deliriously happy . Sometimes they get a tree, more often they don't, including this year .
Your son’s not wrong in the sense that Chanukah has taken on a Christmas flair for commercial and assimilational reasons, but I still love it. For what it’s worth, my nominally Catholic wife is the one who reminds me when Chanukah is coming up, and makes sure the house is stocked with enough candles for all eight nights. She is very much now an honorary Jew (or, to use a keyword from some other threads, Jewish-adjacent).
Basically current observances of both Chanukah and Christmas derive from the Winter Solstice. I agree with both Hannah5555 and ElijahAstin in the sense that people would do something, anything, to lighten the gloom of the short days, particularly as the focus of Christianity and Judaism moved north from the Holy Land towards the chillier and darker climes of Europe. Yes, Egypt and North Africa had a strong Christian presence but that influence on the religion diminished as those areas became predominately Muslim. So the modern gloss is dominated by conditions in Italy and northward. Remember, Rome is roughly on the same latitude as New York. London and Cologne and Trier, Germany, another center of Catholic life, are actually a bit further north than Regina, Saskatchewan, the southern edge of Labrador or the northern peninsula of Newfoundland. Basically this entire northern area must have been heavily affected by "seasonal affective disorder", see NIMH » Seasonal Affective Disorder. A holiday around the time of the solstice would have been just the ticket. This would apply to Jews since the Diaspora had (except for remaining populations in Babylonia) a decidedly northern focus, think Spain, Germany, Poland, Britain etc. Thus, both holidays "soften the edges for kids" (and adults).
And I like that someone has picked up the phrase "Jewish adjacent."
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Originally Posted by ElijahAstin
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Originally Posted by jbgusa
I was born in 1957. The first couple of Christmases I remember, 1962 and 1963 were capped by an evening party at my uncle and aunt's apartment in the Silk Stocking district of New York City. I remember most the sunken living room, and getting a second round of gifts. Since they had no children I started to wonder, at age six, how Santa Claus left gifts for me at two places.
My parents had a plastic Christmas tree that they set up in the living room.
What made your family celebrate Christmas, just out of curiosity? I always found it interesting when in-married Jewish households would put up Christmas trees.
Probably this worry; Jews were in the minority and still are. Just try explaining to a four year old why his or her nursery school friends arrive back in school in January with gifts and they don't. You can't. And how, along the same lines, do you explain to a four year old the lack of gay decorations where they live, and the surrounding flashes of color. Again, you can't. As I mentioned above, my views flipped when exposed to a contrary and logical point of view. All that I had been told about Judaism, until then, was that we are "a little bit quiet on Yom Kippur" and that Daddy wasn't home while sitting Shiva for his mother.
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Originally Posted by ElijahAstin
I don’t have strong feelings about Christmas anymore. I’m not gung-ho about it, and most Christmas music is just plain drek (with the best and most iconic songs having been written by Jews, of course).....it is still, first and foremost, a Christian holiday.
As far as the music, , as far as the holiday, its become, by law and practice, an American holiday. Even Bank Leumi is not open on Christmas. Neither was Seasons, a glatt Kosher chain, but this year Christmas fell on Saturday.
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Originally Posted by ElijahAstin
I had ham on Christmas Eve and Americanized Chinese delivery on Christmas Day.
Years ago, Walmart accidentally marketed a "Pascal ham." They pulled the ad when someone pointed out the mistake. I can't find a link to show this.
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Originally Posted by ElijahAstin
If you drive a Ford, it’s Yum Kipper. If you drive a Cadillac, it’s Yohm K’poor. And if you drive a Rolls Royce, it’s Christmas!
Jews were in the minority and still are. Just try explaining to a four year old why his or her nursery school friends arrive back in school in January with gifts and they don't. You can't. And how, along the same lines, do you explain to a four year old the lack of gay decorations where they live, and the surrounding flashes of color. Again, you can't.
This reminds me of an interview with Steven Spielberg I once read. He grew up the only Jewish family on a street that won the town award for its Christmas light display every year, and they were the only dark house. He pleaded with his father to just put up a few strings of lights, and his father said, "No, Steven, we are Jewish and we don't do that." Later, of course, he came to appreciate his father's refusal.
And I like that someone has picked up the phrase "Jewish adjacent."
I do quite like it. I’m not certain where I first picked it up. It could have been from you, in which case, feel free to take the credit.
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Originally Posted by jbgusa
Probably this worry; Jews were in the minority and still are. Just try explaining to a four year old why his or her nursery school friends arrive back in school in January with gifts and they don't. You can't. And how, along the same lines, do you explain to a four year old the lack of gay decorations where they live, and the surrounding flashes of color. Again, you can't. As I mentioned above, my views flipped when exposed to a contrary and logical point of view. All that I had been told about Judaism, until then, was that we are "a little bit quiet on Yom Kippur" and that Daddy wasn't home while sitting Shiva for his mother.
I don’t see why one can’t explain those things to a four-year-old. Different families have different traditions and customs. I think that’s something you can start to talk about with a small child, with the conversation becoming more complex and nuanced as they grow older.
That’s not to criticize your family’s choices or your current outlook, just to be clear. I also recognize that you grew up in a different time (you’re right amount my parents’ age, I think), and that even in areas with substantial Jewish populations, Christmas had a far more overt presence in schools and other public institutions. My mother and uncle grew up in the secondarily Jewish area—a “Three I’s” town (Irish, Italian, and Israelite), probably not dissimilar to Massapequa—where the public schools were around 15% Jewish. Back then, the Christmas pageants included overtly religious songs. The Jewish kids would just mouth words like “Christ.” I think there was a token Chanukah song or two.
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Originally Posted by jbgusa
As far as the music, , as far as the holiday, its become, by law and practice, an American holiday. Even Bank Leumi is not open on Christmas. Neither was Seasons, a glatt Kosher chain, but this year Christmas fell on Saturday.
I understand that for many, Christmas carries no religious significance. And, of course, even many overly Jewish institutions will close on Christmas because they seldom exclusively hire Jewish staff. But it is still at its core a religious holiday.
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Originally Posted by jbgusa
Years ago, Walmart accidentally marketed a "Pascal ham." They pulled the ad when someone pointed out the mistake. I can't find a link to show this.
I remember reading that. I also recall a major grocery store chain mistaking “Menorah” for “manure” when a family asked for one on their Chanukah party cake.
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Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801
This reminds me of an interview with Steven Spielberg I once read. He grew up the only Jewish family on a street that won the town award for its Christmas light display every year, and they were the only dark house. He pleaded with his father to just put up a few strings of lights, and his father said, "No, Steven, we are Jewish and we don't do that." Later, of course, he came to appreciate his father's refusal.
I believe that was when he lived in South Jersey’s Haddon Township.
This reminds me of an interview with Steven Spielberg I once read. He grew up the only Jewish family on a street that won the town award for its Christmas light display every year, and they were the only dark house. He pleaded with his father to just put up a few strings of lights, and his father said, "No, Steven, we are Jewish and we don't do that." Later, of course, he came to appreciate his father's refusal.
I'd never heard that story -- thanks for sharing that!
Did Steven Spielberg mention in what ways he came to appreciate his father's refusal? Keeping faith with the beliefs and traditions of honored, previous generations would be one, but I wonder if another reason for that appreciation might have been because it taught young Steven not to "follow the crowd"?
Which, in many ways, is what Judaism has always been about. Practically everything in our tradition -- especially our dietary laws -- kept us separate from the ways of the gentiles. This deliberate separation kept us Jews from being absorbed into the Christian world over the centuries, unlike the European pagan peoples who eventually lost their distinctive ways as they became absorbed into the Christian world.
Every year around Christmastime, we Jews are especially cognizant of the Maccabees' fight for our religious existence, culminating in the festival of Chanukah.
We may not have had as many bright new toys to show our schoolmates on return to school after Christmas vacation, but maybe we had a greater gift in knowing... (*cue voice-over of Tevye from Fiddler on the Roof*): "...who we are, and what G-d expects of us."
I'd never heard that story -- thanks for sharing that!
Did Steven Spielberg mention in what ways he came to appreciate his father's refusal? Keeping faith with the beliefs and traditions of honored, previous generations would be one, but I wonder if another reason for that appreciation might have been because it taught young Steven not to "follow the crowd"?
Which, in many ways, is what Judaism has always been about. Practically everything in our tradition -- especially our dietary laws -- kept us separate from the ways of the gentiles. This deliberate separation kept us Jews from being absorbed into the Christian world over the centuries, unlike the European pagan peoples who eventually lost their distinctive ways as they became absorbed into the Christian world.
Every year around Christmastime, we Jews are especially cognizant of the Maccabees' fight for our religious existence, culminating in the festival of Chanukah.
We may not have had as many bright new toys to show our schoolmates on return to school after Christmas vacation, but maybe we had a greater gift in knowing... (*cue voice-over of Tevye from Fiddler on the Roof*): "...who we are, and what G-d expects of us."
When Steven's mother remarried after divorcing his father, she married an observant man who was active in their local synagogue and various Jewish organizations. In interviews, Steven admitted that he did not grow up observant, except that the family always hosted a seder. Steven's youngest sister, was influenced by her stepfather and she became quite observant too. She also married an observant man. She's also a producer of films.
I'd never heard that story -- thanks for sharing that!
Did Steven Spielberg mention in what ways he came to appreciate his father's refusal? Keeping faith with the beliefs and traditions of honored, previous generations would be one, but I wonder if another reason for that appreciation might have been because it taught young Steven not to "follow the crowd"?
Which, in many ways, is what Judaism has always been about. Practically everything in our tradition -- especially our dietary laws -- kept us separate from the ways of the gentiles. This deliberate separation kept us Jews from being absorbed into the Christian world over the centuries, unlike the European pagan peoples who eventually lost their distinctive ways as they became absorbed into the Christian world.
Every year around Christmastime, we Jews are especially cognizant of the Maccabees' fight for our religious existence, culminating in the festival of Chanukah.
We may not have had as many bright new toys to show our schoolmates on return to school after Christmas vacation, but maybe we had a greater gift in knowing... (*cue voice-over of Tevye from Fiddler on the Roof*): "...who we are, and what G-d expects of us."
The Jewish boys probably didn't have to wear those stupid reindeer sweaters they got from their grandmothers for Christmas, either. I remember the guys always coming back after the Christmas break wearing them to school.
Re Spielberg, that story was part of a larger interview in which he talked about what Schindler's list meant to him.
But it also didn't sound like Steven Spielberg had a choice to follow the crowd. He talked about being the fat, uncoordinated kid in his class. At one point the boys all had to run a race in gym, and at the end it was just him and a mentally disabled kid and everyone was cheering for the other kid to win.
Then his father gave him an 8mm camera as a gift. He took it to school, and he went up to the jocks and told them he was going to put them in a movie. He told them to look up and act as if they were shielding their faces from something. Then we went home and spliced it into a film of pigeons flying over and pooping so it looked like they were pooping on the boys. He figured he was going to get beat up, but when he showed it to the jocks, they loved it and wanted him to make more movies with them in it.
That’s not to criticize your family’s choices or your current outlook, just to be clear. I also recognize that you grew up in a different time (you’re right amount my parents’ age, I think), and that even in areas with substantial Jewish populations, Christmas had a far more overt presence in schools and other public institutions.
I am 64. My parents' choices are very much open to discussion. To be flat out frank, when I was old enough to have an opinion I disagreed with them. Right off the bat I was more religious in my first year of Hebrew school, Jewish 5728 and academic 1967-8. It was only the atrocious quality of the faculty for my Bar Mitzvah year, 1969-70 (Bar Mitzvah May 2, 1970) that temporarily soured me. That changed on the date of my Dad's death, January 5, 1973. The Rabbi spent about 45 minutes at our house setting up the eulogy. I learned more about Judaism in that session than I had in Hebrew and Religious School in 1969-70. It was too late though to join confirmation class.
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Originally Posted by ElijahAstin
My mother and uncle grew up in the secondarily Jewish area—a “Three I’s” town (Irish, Italian, and Israelite), probably not dissimilar to Massapequa—where the public schools were around 15% Jewish. Back then, the Christmas pageants included overtly religious songs. The Jewish kids would just mouth words like “Christ.” I think there was a token Chanukah song or two.
Scarsdale, where I grew up, was about one-third Jewish. Same story with the Christmas pageants, which included overtly religious songs as well as a token Chanukah song or two. I have no problem with that since, despite the composers being mostly Jewish, the repertoire of Chanukah songs is thin. On the other hand the menu of liturgical Christian music is rich and varied. Think Handel's Messiah, and the carols. My record collection has a large number of Bach and Handel music. Who are the great Jewish music composers and performers? There are some but I'd have to think hard.
Who are the great Jewish music composers and performers? There are some but I'd have to think hard.
Jacques Offenbach immediately came to my mind. Although he is better known for the comedic operettas he wrote for the 19th century French theater, he also composed a number of Jewish liturgical works. His father was a cantor, from whom young Jacob (Jacques) no doubt inherited his musical talent.
There are numerous, different, and intricate melodies that have been composed for the familiar zemirot (Jewish hymns) that we sing at services. I wouldn't sell short the many great Jewish music composers and performers (cantors) who are not so well-known outside the sphere of Jewish liturgical song. Your rabbi could probably compile a list of them. Perhaps you should ask him.
Last edited by Rachel NewYork; 01-09-2022 at 09:23 PM..
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. Sometimes they get a tree, more often they don't, including this year 
.
