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Old 01-24-2009, 07:20 PM
 
3 posts, read 9,316 times
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I pause and recognize that this art may disturb many. How the cross can be a thing of beauty is strange to those that are not its adherents. Those of the Faith view the suffering and death as Divine love and mercy for all humanity. Indeed, it is a terrible beauty, an immense paradox.

I made some religious art. It brings up theological issues I would like to sort out. How would a Jew for Jesus view this? He/she should like the art, considering that Christ looks Jewish. But would they have issues considering the commandment about “no graven images”? How does the art and the ideas behind it relate to Messianic Judaism? Permissible, or not?

For the most part, in this country we tend to make Christ look like he was a man out of European culture, or sometimes African American. I like the idea of Christ looking more like a Jewish man, side locks and all. I did it that way because I have never seen him depicted on a cross in a manner that authentically indicates that he was a Jew. His hair has the hint of "ruddy" so as to suggest that he is from the line of King David, like the scriptures tell that Messiah would be.


THOU FORSAKEN


Peace.
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Old 01-24-2009, 08:17 PM
Status: "Selling homes...." (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: Sarasota, Florida
3,412 posts, read 9,213,939 times
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That's how i see religion, and that is how its always portrayed to the masses: Scary, unpleasant, fearful, diabolic in some ways. There is nothing, absolutely nothing pleasant about this. And i can see why... gotta keep them sheep scared and follow... or else....

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Old 01-24-2009, 08:39 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn
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Stop and think about it: he couldn't possibly have looked all peaceful and serene when he was actually on that cross. Crucifixion was no joke. This art is probably a lot closer to the reality of the situation.
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Old 01-24-2009, 08:52 PM
 
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Good art will always cause a reaction, make the viewer feel something whether positive or negative. I think this is a very good work of art.

As far as it depicting the reality of the situation I think you first need to establish that it was indeed a real situation. Crucifixion was very real though and I can't imagine it was pleasant.
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Old 01-24-2009, 10:05 PM
Status: "Selling homes...." (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: Sarasota, Florida
3,412 posts, read 9,213,939 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred314X View Post
Stop and think about it: he couldn't possibly have looked all peaceful and serene when he was actually on that cross. Crucifixion was no joke. This art is probably a lot closer to the reality of the situation.
Oh i understand the situation. You didn't get what i was saying. Christians love to display horror, blood, and all that comes with it, Doom'n'Gloom.
I have no problem with art, it's fantastic, but Christianity is always shows nothing pleasant, even in art.
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Old 01-24-2009, 11:07 PM
 
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Does it matter? I mean, Christ was a heretic as far as the Jewish leaders were concerned. He was not a Jew in the modern sense of the word, but a part of the Notzrim movement.

Anyway, the cross is ridiculous. Sure he died, but Christ also CAME BACK. He is to me, as a Gnostic, not the sadomasochistic ornament many of the Nicenes make him out to be, but a teacher of the path of liberation. The Christ I know looks more like this...



As We drawn in the creator's cruel world, he is their to lift us out of the waters of the Lie and with his teachings so that we might live of the shores of oneness with GOD
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Old 01-25-2009, 03:34 AM
 
2,255 posts, read 4,892,075 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victorianpunk View Post
Does it matter? I mean, Christ was a heretic as far as the Jewish leaders were concerned. He was not a Jew in the modern sense of the word, but a part of the Notzrim movement.
What the original poster said about Jesus more Jewish looking I don't necessarily believe was the reality of what's in people's minds today. For example it would seem that to the O.P. , that the Jesus of the bible would look more like one of those "Kein Juden" Nazi posters with the sterotype Jew with the big nose. That most likely was not the case. That really is that this more of a European look. The Jews of modern times are more of a genetic mix over centuries of numerous European cultures and races. I doubt there is any longer such a thing as a purebred Jewish person. Perhaps a Palistinian is a closer version of a purebred Jew left over from Roman times and intermixed with Arabian blood when the Muslims forced Islamic conversion on them.

But I agree with your statement that it does'nt matter what he looked like. The Bible never gave looks as a reason for God's approval. I think for that reason Jesus was never physically described. It was his life's work, teachings, ministry and the way he treated others which got him the respect and admiration. The Jews were looking for a Warrior-like Messiah (Maybe someone who was a look a-like Sylvester Stallone in Rambo ) to liberate them from the Romans and Herod. They were sadly disappointed in Jesus, as even Paul mentioned.

I like the example of the Prophet Samuel looking for a replacement for wicked King Saul and viewing the family line of Jesse and his sons. Samuel at first chose the handsome good looking and no doubt manly physical build of Jesse's son Eliab. But notice what was said to Samuel about his choice.

1 Samuel 16:6-7 - "The Message Bible"
Quote:
When they arrived, Samuel took one look at Eliab and thought, "Here he is! God's anoited!"

But God told Samuel, "Looks are'nt everything. Don't be impressed with his looks and stature. I've already eliminated him. God judges persons differently than humans do. Men and women look at the face; God looks into the hearts."
Jesus was also not someone who would have apparently stood out in the crowd. When betrayed by Judas Escariot, he had to betray Jesus to his enemies by kissing Jesus on the cheek so that they would know who to arrest. Seems Jesus may have blended in with even his apostles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by victorianpunk
Anyway, the cross is ridiculous. Sure he died, but Christ also CAME BACK. He is to me, as a Gnostic, not the sadomasochistic ornament many of the Nicenes make him out to be, but a teacher of the path of liberation.
I also agree with your sentiments here. I DO NOT believe Jesus was a "Jesus Christ Superstar" from a 1968 "Woodstock Rock festival". Unfortunately all we have are over the centuries are different artist's conceptions of what they THINK or THOUGHT Jesus should look like. We also have to understand that they were at the mercy of a merciless Clerical Hierarchy which demanded they come up with something or else.

Jesus was a Jew who respectfully and faithfully followed the Mosaic Law. The law was far more than rules and regulations about religious ceremonies and rites. They were also laws on personal hygene and grooming. Jesus would definitely have been a decent looking and well groomed man and the scraggly long greasy hair thing would have been out. Take a look at this very thought at
1 Corinthians 11:14 - "New International Version"
Quote:
"Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a digrace to him."
The only ones who had long hair in Israel were Nazarites, and even they, as faithful Israelites keeping the law would have neatly washed, well groomed and perhaps braided hair. Jesus was not a Nazarite.

Jesus is also depicted as a sickly skeleton on a cross. Many believe he was a frail man because he needed help to carry the stake he was to be impaled on and also was the first of the three to die. Yet the scripture at Luke 2:52 speaks of Jesus growing up with wisdom and physical stature when he was young. He was also a carpenter for the better part of 30 years and that occupation would hardly have been appropriate of someone who was of slight or weak body build. Jesus also drove the cattle, the sheep and the money changers out of the temple. He walked hundreds of miles throughout his 3+ years of ministry and often was able to escape the mob action when they grabbed him to kill him earlier. All of these things hardly help us to visualize a sickly lame individual.

Now to the O.P.'s thought of no graven images. This was true, none were ever used by the early Christians. So people of modern times praying to religious icons, or other art work or even a Cross is definitely against the scriptures. You may want to look at this well known reference work.

The Non-Christian Cross

It would appear that the use of the Cross as a symbol of Christianity did'nt happen until the 3rd or 4th centuries and seems to be drawn from the vision of the three crosses by the pagan Roman Emperor Constantine who was himself a pagan and the cross already a pagan symbol for centuries previously. They early Christians of the Bible never used it. Can you imagine if an M16 Rifle had been used to kill Jesus ??? Church Steeples and religious necklaces would look alot different today.
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