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Old 06-12-2007, 11:38 AM
Location: Nashville, Tn
7,916 posts, read 14,771,416 times
Reputation: 5390


wildberries61 wrote:
I find it strange that the US must take care of Israel and The Palestinians as the surrounding countries do NOTHING Saudi Arabia & Jordan do nothing about this conflict. They don't seem to be offering any solution to were the Palestinian should be.
I agree. None of the Arab nations in the region have ever offered a meaningful and realistic approach to resolving the crisis between Israel and the Palestinians. In fact, everything that they're doing is fueling the fire and making matters much worse. The school systems and the media in the Arab Middle East give it's citizens a very distorted view of events and perpetuate the hatred to a new generation. All of them have one thing in common. They want to see Israel cease to exist as a nation. There is no compromise or flexibility on this issue. As long as these attitudes exist the situation appears to be hopeless.

Old 06-12-2007, 02:34 PM
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,411 posts, read 13,884,954 times
Reputation: 8637
I object to old tribalistic attitudes which attempt to rule the nations of today. Our weapons are much more dangerous. We cannot afford the jealous, racist, destructive god of the Old Testiment as our god of today.

It seems that most of the political troubles that nations of the world witnesses today are by the religions who accept the OT as part of their religion.

They are tribal, exclusive and exacerbate divisions among people when we should all be working at trying to get along and solve global problems.

Many Christians believe if you do not accept Christ you are not saved, making them somehow special and apart from others.
Moslems who strictly interpret the Koran, do not believe in democracy because that is man ruling man. To them, gods law should rule man so democracies are corrupt in their eyes.
Many Jews actually take seriously that some god thinks of them as special amongst mankind. I have heard that, before the Babylonian captivity this was not an important part of their belief, but was incorporated from the local religion as being useful at the time. It has grown to be a major factor that may plunge the world into WWIII.

If people do not start thinking coherently about such things I think we will be dooming the world, ultimately. It is about time we dropped some of the tribal thinking of the past and learn to get on with each other.
Old 06-12-2007, 04:20 PM
Location: Happy wherever I am - Florida now
3,359 posts, read 9,591,580 times
Reputation: 3738
It's not so much the OT, which is encorporated into all three Judeo-Christian-Muslim religions, as it is the Hamarabi Code (an eye for an eye) the pre-Muslim law that was encorporated into their religion much as the trinity was encorporated into Christianity. I think we have seen that until the Arabs love the lives of their children more than they think it an honor for them to blow themselves up, we will see no progress in peace.

The British had been in control of the current Israeli/Palentinian lands in the territory that was called TransJordan around the time of WWII. There were a few Jews living there but mostly Arabs and tribal nomads, Jews having been driven out by both Christians and Arabs over the centuries. The Balfour Declaration and later the UN granted a portion of this unregulated territory for a Jewish nation, some properties were fought for, others purchased.

As soon as the state was created it was attacked by its neighbors who see no validity of any other religion, or any other peoples living in their midst. The Madrassas, extreme religious schools, have a lot to do with this being the only education available to some Arabs. It didn't help that Jews who were more westernized, more educated, and more monied, in some cases, set to building a prosperous nation which was in stark contrast to those around them.

Though there are some Arabs living within Israel as citizens it is preferable to have a seperate Palestinian state so the higher birthrate of Arabs doesn't overtake Israeli rule within their own country. The problem is they don't have a strong leader right now, nor one who is committed to peace in order to overcome the factions within the Palestinian areas. Arafat had been a militant and wasn't able to change his ways. It's too bad, because peace could only help them in moving from poverty to an economically feasible state which would be the best thing for everyone.
Old 06-12-2007, 06:32 PM
Location: Nashville, Tn
7,916 posts, read 14,771,416 times
Reputation: 5390
Sgoldie wrote:
The problem is they don't have a strong leader right now, nor one who is committed to peace in order to overcome the factions within the Palestinian areas. Arafat had been a militant and wasn't able to change his ways.
What the Palestinians need is their own version of a Martin Luther King. Their leadership has been corrupt and power hungry for a very long time so I completely agree with what you're saying. Unfortunately, an Arab leader seeking peace with Israel would face danger from his own people and it would be a difficult uphill battle.
Old 06-12-2007, 07:23 PM
Location: Happy wherever I am - Florida now
3,359 posts, read 9,591,580 times
Reputation: 3738
Yes, it seems the only thing potential Palestinian leaders stand on is their hatred of Israel. Not very productive in the long run.
Old 06-15-2007, 07:16 AM
8 posts, read 19,593 times
Reputation: 12
Because they are different? Like in 2nd grade!
Old 06-15-2007, 08:07 AM
Location: Bronx, NY
1,310 posts, read 2,501,717 times
Reputation: 670
It appears that it will start to get worse now that the Hamas has pretty much captured the Gaza Strip. Knowing that they receive weapons and military assistance from Iran ups the ante considerably and increases the pressure in that region tremendously.

It wouldn't surprise me to read about this coup for awhile and then it gets quiet there all of a sudden. One day though, it will be in the news once again as we hear of strikes against cities in Israel. Having a hateful neighbor on your doorstep is never a good scenario. God help Israel.
Old 06-15-2007, 08:20 AM
Location: Londonderry, NH
39,703 posts, read 42,409,234 times
Reputation: 22832
Saudi Arabia and Jordan are feudal Kingdoms. Israel is a democratic Republic. This is enough conflict that hatred is not needed but is a handy excuse. Iran is not arming the Hamas just for an assault against Israel but is using this conflict to create an armed force that can be used against the Sunni heretics in Saudi Arabia. Iran will not attack Israel because Israel has nuclear weapons and a delivery system. Saudi Arabia does not.
Old 06-15-2007, 08:31 AM
Location: Bronx, NY
1,310 posts, read 2,501,717 times
Reputation: 670
I see the points you are making yes, but Iran has boldy proclaimed death to Israel a number of times. I am not sure of Israel's long distance strike capabilities but if armed weapons make it into the Gaza Strip, it is pretty scary stuff to have those aimed at you from your doorstep, so to speak.
Old 06-20-2007, 06:15 AM
20,304 posts, read 18,640,363 times
Reputation: 11549
I don't hate any ethnic group...what I do hate is this...

When a group of people expect others to leave go of their religious beliefs and instead of saying Christmas, we must say Holiday and stop playing religious hymns...and our kids can no longer sing "Oh Little Town of Bethlehem" or pray in public schools and the word God being stricken from all things? That's what I hate and cannot understand? Especially when we apease these requests. If you don't like it, you don't have to participate. You can walk away, or not listen....this is a matter of lost respect for the feelings and beliefs of others.

I may not agree with you, but I respect you and your opinion.

I don't believe any ethnic group are God's chosen people. I believe at the time, there were a lot of Jewish people in that area of the world....and I believe what God meant, was the fact that we are all God's chosen...if we want to be...and that is very personal and privet between us and our God. But were the Jews God's chosen....no, I believe God meant, all people, regardless of race or religion. It just so happened, that this was another misunderstanding of man....b/c at that particular point in time. Man is by nature driven by power...and power can come in many forms...i.e. material wealth, leadership, sex, etc., and man can be evil by nature and bend things to suit his agenda. Remember, at that time, women were not allowed to read the torra? Do you really believe that God meant it to be so? I think not...again, another man made rule??????

I dunno, just my take....

Last edited by cremebrulee; 06-20-2007 at 06:25 AM..
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