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Ok I have many Jewish friends, I crochet yamikas for all the new male babies (I can do trains, cars, dinosaurs, hebrew alphabet), worked in a bungalow colony camp for 4 years...so I am at times more Jewish than some of my Jewish friends...so don't take offense to this.
But.....
I'm sure if you asked a Palestinian about violent Jewish acts they may have a different opinion about Jewish people being peaceful. Just had to put it out there. Sorry.
You're right...I really wasn't thinking of the wars that are going on over there...I was more talking about terrorism or unwaranted attacks on innocent people etc.
Ok I have many Jewish friends, I crochet yamikas for all the new male babies (I can do trains, cars, dinosaurs, hebrew alphabet), worked in a bungalow colony camp for 4 years...so I am at times more Jewish than some of my Jewish friends...so don't take offense to this.
But.....
I'm sure if you asked a Palestinian about violent Jewish acts they may have a different opinion about Jewish people being peaceful. Just had to put it out there. Sorry.
Of course there's violence in Israel, but that's in the context of war... not that it excuses anything, however the majority of the fighting is done in self-defense and in defending their land. I don't agree with everything that goes on there, but it's hardly representative of the worldwide & historical Jewish population. Nearly every ethnic/national group has fought in war-time, and you don't hear me calling them violent people.
I think some Christian groups are intimidated by Jews because the Christians realize their belief changes the OT yet still relies on the OT...therefore, they piggybacked someone else's religion, changed it, then said the original creators of it are the ones who are going to hell.
This would automatically put anyone in a defensive position. Or rather, they have put themselves into this defensive position.
The existence of the Jews is a constant reminder of an older religion, a longer standing religion, and that is intimidating. So...get rid of them! Wouldn't that solve the problem?
Sorry, JerZ, from a Christian perspective, these statements make no sense. Our beliefs don't change the OT, we believe that the prophecies in the OT were fulfilled. Nothing was changed. It was completed. Jesus said, "it is finished."
That does not put Christians in a defensive position. Christianity would be nowhere without the OT. Many Christians feel that Christianity is Jewish, a continuation of the OT with a new chapter, if you will. As someone said, we are thankful that we were "grafted in".
Let's remember that Christians are among the strongest supporters of Israel today. We are taught to love the Jewish people, to pray for them and to support them in myriad ways. For example, Christians in droves take over on Jewish holidays in Jewish service organizations so that Jewish people can celebrate with their families. They contribute to organizations that help bring Jews back to Israel from around the world so that they can be in their own land, and participate in cooperative efforts to promote mutual understanding.
I'm aware that there is a certain amount of distrust and animosity among Jews (not all) toward Christians. You might even call it hatred, the word that is the core of this topic. I believe there is a lot of bad history that Christians of today have to acknowledge and overcome, and there is a lot of misunderstanding on the part of Jews they also need to let go of. We really are not enemies.
Please don't take offense at what I wrote. I understand your perspective, and wanted to try to show you mine from a Christian point of view. Unless we all put forth a sincere effort to put ourselves in the other persons' shoes, there will always be a gulf that is hard to bridge.
Where we may be wrong in our perceptions, it's always good to be open to considering other views and to correcting our misconceptions. They say perception is reality and to a great extent this is true because we act, talk, think based on our perception. Your perception is valid for you based on where you are coming from today. So is ours (and as you see even we differ in our perceptions and understanding of our own faith; just as there are many branches of Judaism, so there are branches in Christianity). That does not mean we (Christians and Jews) are all wrong, nor does it mean we are all correct.
There is rising anti-semitism in many parts of the world and I'm primarily aware of it in Europe. It's spiritual, as has been said, but it's also the result of ignorance and, sometimes, the result of poor personal experience. Not all anti-semites are Christian, and not all who claim to be Christian are.
I think that, with what lies on the world horizon in the not too distant future and the serious risks we all face, it's very important that we stick together. Shalom.
Last edited by swbtoo; 06-11-2007 at 05:06 AM..
Reason: line
Okay I have read a lot of the information referenced in the posts above and on a lot of websites, news programs, and Al Jazeera etc. (I know I didn't spell that right) and the term "Zionist" keeps popping up. When some of the people who don't seem to like Jews say "Zionist" it reminds me of the venomous way you hear the "N" word used in certain areas. The dictionary definition I found is...
__________________________________________________ ____
Zionist
Zi·on·ist [ z ənist ] (plural Zi·on·ists)
noun
Definition:
1. supporter of Jewish state: a supporter of Zionism
2. South Africa Christian with traditional African beliefs: a member of an independent Christian church in South Africa that incorporates traditional African beliefs and forms of worship
__________________________________________________ _______
Why do they say it with such venom? Is there some other meaning I'm not understanding?
Why do the Palestinians hate the Jews? I understand that some or all of the land Isreal is on used to belong to Palestine but didn't the UN give them Israel? Am I wrong about that? How is that the Jews fault? And why would people in Spain for example be peeved about that? Why did all of the European countries let the Holocaust happen? Why did the US? Did people know? We get cranky about the treatment of animals in shelters in the US today so why would we be so slow to help the Jews? And why would you even care if someone's religion was different than yours? Won't God straighten all of that out when we die and then whoever is wrong about Jesus will be pretty embarrassed? As long as you believe in God isn't the rest just details? And even if you don't believe in God at all I certainly don't want you wiped off the planet for it.
Why don't we just let Israel have all of the Middle East. From what I've seem in the news Israel keeps trying to compromise and make peace but Iran and the Palestinians say "we'll make peace when all the Jews are dead." Well jeeze who's side should we be on?
I know I am asking a lot of questions but I just don't get it?
I think most people hate the Jews, because in the old testament they were
Gods chosen people. I think the hatred comes from a religious view that began centuries ago, and has grown. I have had Jewish friends in my life and was always invited into their homes and welcomed. But I never judge anybody by their beliefs, and definitely don't hate anyone for what they believe and practice.
Sorry, JerZ, from a Christian perspective, these statements make no sense. Our beliefs don't change the OT, we believe that the prophecies in the OT were fulfilled. Nothing was changed. It was completed. Jesus said, "it is finished."
That does not put Christians in a defensive position. Christianity would be nowhere without the OT. Many Christians feel that Christianity is Jewish, a continuation of the OT with a new chapter, if you will. As someone said, we are thankful that we were "grafted in".
Let's remember that Christians are among the strongest supporters of Israel today. We are taught to love the Jewish people, to pray for them and to support them in myriad ways. For example, Christians in droves take over on Jewish holidays in Jewish service organizations so that Jewish people can celebrate with their families. They contribute to organizations that help bring Jews back to Israel from around the world so that they can be in their own land, and participate in cooperative efforts to promote mutual understanding.
I'm aware that there is a certain amount of distrust and animosity among Jews (not all) toward Christians. You might even call it hatred, the word that is the core of this topic. I believe there is a lot of bad history that Christians of today have to acknowledge and overcome, and there is a lot of misunderstanding on the part of Jews they also need to let go of. We really are not enemies.
Please don't take offense at what I wrote. I understand your perspective, and wanted to try to show you mine from a Christian point of view. Unless we all put forth a sincere effort to put ourselves in the other persons' shoes, there will always be a gulf that is hard to bridge.
Where we may be wrong in our perceptions, it's always good to be open to considering other views and to correcting our misconceptions. They say perception is reality and to a great extent this is true because we act, talk, think based on our perception. Your perception is valid for you based on where you are coming from today. So is ours (and as you see even we differ in our perceptions and understanding of our own faith; just as there are many branches of Judaism, so there are branches in Christianity). That does not mean we (Christians and Jews) are all wrong, nor does it mean we are all correct.
There is rising anti-semitism in many parts of the world and I'm primarily aware of it in Europe. It's spiritual, as has been said, but it's also the result of ignorance and, sometimes, the result of poor personal experience. Not all anti-semites are Christian, and not all who claim to be Christian are.
I think that, with what lies on the world horizon in the not too distant future and the serious risks we all face, it's very important that we stick together. Shalom.
Great post! Thanks for that. My response was not going to be so...umm...composed.
Sorry, JerZ, from a Christian perspective, these statements make no sense. Our beliefs don't change the OT, we believe that the prophecies in the OT were fulfilled. Nothing was changed. It was completed. Jesus said, "it is finished."
Well, I definitely didn't take offense to your post, so that's ok! But I wanted to point that a whole lot changed. 613 laws changed. Those were the changes I was referring to. I know Jesus said he didn't come to change the law but to fulfill it. But conversely, his coming changed the old Jewish laws entirely. If not, gentiles today wouldn't wear pork, would perform certain prayers a certain way, and observe a whole lot of marital, family, work, etc. laws every single day.
Being the Chosen People (to initially receive the word and laws of God) may be an honor but it is even more of a responsibility and heavy burden. For instance, Jews have been killed for ions, especially by despotic regimes, without benefit of being able to renounce their religion because it is also their race in most cases. It's hard to impose to your people that you (the despotic leader or similar) are the end all, know all, and be all when Jews only hold that position for God, and no man. Jews are a big threat to those who'd take your freedom.
It's true that today most Christians support Jews but that is only a recent occurence. Even as recently as the 1950's there were published books by Catholic Cardinals who held diametrically opposed views sprewing hatred of Jews. It is even more recently that Christians have begun to understand that they need not convert Jews to Christianity. There is not the need, and there are much more important things for us all to be working on.
Jews endure while others learn. This is the case with Muslims now, each more recently inspired to a universal and spiritual God have wanted to pre-empt the previous group of believers, by conversion or death, thinking their way was the new way. Christians to Jews, Muslims to Jews and to Christians.
We've seen this during the Crusades. Christians came to take over the Holy Land as their own. Muslims also feel that it is theirs. Jews have always been willing to share their religious entities without oppression or exclusivity as long as they were not thrown out themselves, or killed to attain it.
It's true that today most Christians support Jews but that is only a recent occurence. Even as recently as the 1950's there were published books by Catholic Cardinals who held diametrically opposed views sprewing hatred of Jews.
Thank you. Exactly. I don't see all this loving acceptance during Christianity's first 1,900 years or so.
If the tide truly is turning, not just with lip service and political strategy but truly, in people's hearts, then that is a wonderful thing.
If the tide truly is turning, not just with lip service and political strategy but truly, in people's hearts, then that is a wonderful thing.[/quote]
Forgive my ignorance but what political strategy would it serve? Who's?
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Zionist
