Do you consider Overland Park a suburb of KCMO or KCK? (Kansas City: upper-class, neighborhoods)

[CrownVic95]

Originally Posted by GraniteStater

First off, if your last frame of reference is of JOCO circa 1990 I highly doubt you would even recognize the place at all, unless your focus is exclusively on the established areas INSIDE THE 435 LOOP.

You would have to give me a general indicator of what area of JOCO you previously lived in? The county has engineered enormous gains in income over time at the expense of many other areas of the metro as stated numerous times. I would agree with some of the other posters regarding the yuppie culture of the 80s that never really died in the area. Lots of new money and low self-esteem yields to big spending over the top conspicuous consumption. However, this is a common theme in many suburban and exurban boomburg counties, particularly the Sunbelt.
As freestater did offer good evidence regarding migration I will yield on some of those points. However, in my former neighborhood I did count three relocatees from CA over a few year period which I thought was quite significant. Regardless of the "relative lack" of western transplants, the inherent built environment, culture, and social tendencies have been trending less Midwestern over a number of years. If you showed a transplant from a Great Lakes city the southern part of JOCO it might feel like a completely alien place to them...

"and educated people are a much lower percentage of the population here than there. When I lived in JOCO, I took them for granted. Today, I'm little short of amazed..and delighted..to run into them"

JOCO always comes out quite well with regard to educational attainment, so that really hasn't changed much over time.

"what I'm talking about when I speak of the California attitudes and personality characteristics"

...More common among younger generations and far less apparent among the middle age on up.

"but genuinely warm, honest, well mannered"

A mixed bag to say the least... That is all.

"Today, I'm little short of amazed..and delighted..to run into them."

California doesn't have the KS/MO state line issue so a county with the attributes and characteristics of JOCO was never able to form in the first place. The vast majority of the rest of the US is nothing like JOCO.

I lived in Lenexa, Shawnee, and Overland Park - both north and south of 435. We moved to an apartment complex south of 435 in 1984 and even then there was lots of new development south of 435 in the Blue Valley school district. My kids went to Indian Valley Elementary. No doubt there has been lots of growth farther south since I left, but is it not, for the most part, more of the same upscale suburban development that has been going on for decades? It has been established, of course, that we have diametrically opposed viewpoints on such development.

Both you and kcmo attribute much more to the "state line issue" than can be supported by any logical reasoning. JOCO is an affluent suburban area like many others throughout the country and most people pay no more attention to the state line than they do to city limits in other metros when they are considering neighborhood choices and schools for their children.

What has happened in the Bay Area - and to a degree up and down the west coast - is altogether different from the Midwest and East. It's called the counter culture and the Bay Area is its epicenter. For nearly 50 years here there have been few, if any, of the behavioral standards typical of polite society in most of America. Thus there are fully two generations of natives here that were never taught, much less compelled to adhere to, even the basic fundamentals of politeness and courtesy. Educational standards fell by the wayside in harmony with those for general behavior, so we have here a native population with the characteristics I have described previously. Again, I'm speaking generally and by no means saying that there aren't exceptions. But the general differences between cultural standards here vs. the Midwest are stark.

I was talking to a customer last week whose wife works in San Francisco and I asked him how she likes it. They are recent transplants from Boston, so they are just beginning to understand what they're dealing with here. He answered that she seems to like her job ok, but she has already learned that there are some mornings when it's best not to go to the local Starbuck's. The day before, one of her coworkers had come into the office saying "don't go to Starbuck's this morning - the naked guys are there". I could go on and on, but you get the idea.

If, in fact, Johnson County - or any other county, for that matter - were invaded and overrun with Bay Area counter culture attitudes and personalities, I would fully agree with you about "annoying people", as I said before. But the facts that Freestater posted would seem counter to that. Nor did it seem likely to me that the types I'm talking about would migrate to Johnson County in droves. So what it appears we are left with is that what you find so "annoying" is continued suburban "sprawl" and the people that much prefer that setting and lifestyle. As you know, that is a point on which we have already agreed to disagree.

[kcmo]

FWIW, I see nothing in common between JoCo and SoCal. That comparison doesn't even make sense to me. I have relatives in Orange County and the places couldn't be more different. It's still freaking Kansas, no matter the demographics.

Having said that, I do understand where granite is coming from when trying to compare JoCo to affluent counties of cities of the upper midwest and northeast (Balt, Cleveland, Detroit, DC etc). The place has a more west coast (or west /, phoenix, denver, etc) feel I suppose. But it's still not much like them. Very different culture (church, college sports etc). Most people in JoCo are from rural or smaller towns around the midwest and that culture is prevalent regardless of the materialistic stuff people have.

JoCo might "look" a bit more western, but it's a midwestern suburb through and through, I have never thought of it as being overun by Californians. Denver and Phoenix, sure, but few people from CA move to KC and most people I know from CA have zero interest in living east of Denver and Kansas would be like the last place they would choose.

Crown vic being quite the notable exception

[CrownVic95]

Originally Posted by kcmo

FWIW, I see nothing in common between JoCo and SoCal. That comparison doesn't even make sense to me. I have relatives in Orange County and the places couldn't be more different. It's still freaking Kansas, no matter the demographics.

Having said that, I do understand where granite is coming from when trying to compare JoCo to affluent counties of cities of the upper midwest and northeast (Balt, Cleveland, Detroit, DC etc). The place has a more west coast (or west /, phoenix, denver, etc) feel I suppose. But it's still not much like them. Very different culture (church, college sports etc). Most people in JoCo are from rural or smaller towns around the midwest and that culture is prevalent regardless of the materialistic stuff people have.

JoCo might "look" a bit more western, but it's a midwestern suburb through and through, I have never thought of it as being overun by Californians. Denver and Phoenix, sure, but few people from CA move to KC and most people I know from CA have zero interest in living east of Denver and Kansas would be like the last place they would choose.

Crown vic being quite the notable exception

You're absolutely right, but remember I'm not from California.

[northbound74]

Originally Posted by kcmo

JoCo might "look" a bit more western, but it's a midwestern suburb through and through, I have never thought of it as being overun by Californians. Denver and Phoenix, sure, but few people from CA move to KC and most people I know from CA have zero interest in living east of Denver and Kansas would be like the last place they would choose.

Crown vic being quite the notable exception

Believe it or not, there are an extremely large number of ex-Californians in the Ozarks region, especially in Northwest Arkansas and Southwest Missouri. Not sure what it's all about, whether it be that Californians demand hills and mild weather, or just the Clampets returning home.
The phenomena drives people down there crazy. Real estate prices shoot up because Californians and other westerners think 200k is a bargain for 10 acres and a shack and there are just enough enterprising souls take advantage of their ignorance.
Locals also accuse the newcomers of being rude, arrogant, and particularly bad neighbors. I have no firsthand experience, it's just what I hear from family members in the area. Californians aren't the only ex-pats wreaking havoc on the local culture, but they're the most numerous and most obvious.
It's enough to keep me from seeking any kind of refuge in the Ozarks. A place once peaceful and affordable is no more.

[MOKAN]

Isn't it obvious that recreational opportunities and scenic/natural beauty are a major draw? That's what's always touted of Denver. Now, if Kansas City could just tap into that draw because of proximity....

Or maybe the people flocking to the Ozarks prefer the lack of urban problems and humanity, which seem to go together.

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by Samantha S

And which one of us lives 2000 miles away ..... ?




Yeah, but so are many other small counties in the US




So it's just like a plethora of other corporate suburbs around the US. And at the same time it's nothing like the rest of the US.





Are you and kcmo having some sort of contest where you try to see who can talk out of his backside the most?

How about trying to understand the differing points from an intellectual viewpoint

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by MOKAN

Isn't it obvious that recreational opportunities and scenic/natural beauty are a major draw? That's what's always touted of Denver. Now, if Kansas City could just tap into that draw because of proximity....

Or maybe the people flocking to the Ozarks prefer the lack of urban problems and humanity, which seem to go together.

I coined this grouping phrase as a geographer who pays close attention to demogrpahic trends: "resort, recreation, retiree" demographics, or RRR demographic characteristics. These demographics are common in places that have higher demand for housing, recreational activities, and amenities that spur retiree in-migration. Townhouses, time shares, housing with access to water, patio homes, etc are all common themes. In northern and mountain areas, proximity to skiing and oligotrophic lakes are common themes that attract wealthier retirees with $$$.

[Samantha S]

Originally Posted by GraniteStater

How about trying to understand the differing points from an intellectual viewpoint

Make a logical intellectual point and I will certainly try to understand it. The one I was referring to didn't make any sense at all as it even contradicted itself.

[aragx6]

Originally Posted by Samantha S

In recent years, I've been to nice suburbs of Seattle, Portland, Detroit, DC, Denver, St. Louis, San Diego, Chicago and others. There is very little difference among the attitudes of people, the levels of consumption, or the snootiness factor.

I 100% agree with this, assuming like you said that we're talking about newer upper-income suburbs. While the housing styles might be slightly different, most modern suburbs are laid out similarly, have similar types of people doing similar types of work, those people all drive similar cars, and the cities themselves have similar big box and chain shopping and dining.

The idea that JoCo is so wildly different than places like Schaumburg, IL or Chesterfield, MO or Irving, TX is just plain silly.

[ykamom]

HAve to agree with this one. Sometimes, when I was visiting there, while in OP, or Lee's Summit for that matter, I forgot where I was and would have sworn I was IN Allen TX, or Plano TX. The similarities are astonishing. Are the people much different? I can't imagine they are. The folks I ran into were all very pleasant and decent. They might be "snooty" or might not. You would have to get to know them to know that.