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Old 01-20-2011, 07:37 PM
 
400 posts, read 545,589 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOKAN View Post
Wyandotte County, Part 1

According to this link, in 1880 "Wyandotte City" had 6,149 residents, while "Kansas City" (KS) had 3,200. While I haven't found a map that shows it, I believe the original Kansas City in Kansas had extended westward across the Kansas River along lower Central Avenue before the consolidation in 1886 and was more substantial than just the Kansas portion of the west bottoms.

KCK's population in 1890, after the consolidation, was 38,316. In 1890, KCMO's population was 132, 716. By 1900, KCK was 51,418 and KCMO 163,752.

Source: CENSUS BUREAU RETURNS. - Official Counts of the Populations of Pittsburg, Kansas City, and Other Places. - View Article - NYTimes.com

KCMO was always the much larger, central city. Although it appears KCK was once far more important and prosperous of a place. The lack of a diversified economy as well as urban school district problems really left KCK behind. Who coined "Kansas City" first is really just for fun, as I've seen the user KCMO mention it in the past.

The DestinationKC link reads as if KCMO could have written it himself and was certainly written by a Missourian. The "Unified Government" bit is a bit misleading though. I don't know why anybody would ever call KCK that. KCK, Bonner Springs, and Edwardsville are still fully independent cities. What changed was the city of KCK simply took on the county administrative duties. Wyandotte County is very small, there is no unincorprated land, and KCK takes up something like 90% of the total land.
You are a real breath of fresh air on this forum. Please keep posting things like this.
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Old 01-20-2011, 08:00 PM
 
400 posts, read 545,589 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
Freestater, my point was that it was a tiny "extension" of KCMO that spilled over into Kansas. Regardless of if was incorporated or not. This little "town" of Kansas City in Kansas was just industrial spillover. Did anybody even live there? Iím sure a few did, but it never really developed into anything.

It's still like that today, you can still see where the KS side of the West Bottoms was sort the leftovers from the MO side. Not much there. Why would they name a tiny collection of storage buildings and stock yards Kansas City for any other reason than to simply say it's an extension of the bigger Kansas City that is not in MO. IE, Kansas City, KS.
The fact remains that the first official "City of Kansas City" was the one in Kansas, incorporated in 1872 under that name. It is not my fault that the "City of Kansas" (Missouri) did not get around to changing their name to "City of Kansas City" until 1889.
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Old 01-20-2011, 08:19 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
7,744 posts, read 9,490,197 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOKAN View Post
Wyandotte County, Part 1

The DestinationKC link reads as if KCMO could have written it himself and was certainly written by a Missourian. The "Unified Government" bit is a bit misleading though. I don't know why anybody would ever call KCK that.
Just like the stuff you will find on KCK based websites and sources may just omit the rumor that KCK was named after KCMO...

Plus, nobody from MO would have written that because nobody from KCMO would have mentioned the wizard of oz in any type of promotional piece for the city. .

Also, it didn't say people call KCK that name. That's just the official name now. KCK will always be called KCK or Kansas City, Kansas. I don't think I have ever heard it called Kansas City (without the state) outside a few wyandotte county gov websites etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeStater View Post
The fact remains that the first official "City of Kansas City" was the one in Kansas, incorporated in 1872 under that name. It is not my fault that the "City of Kansas" (Missouri) did not get around to changing their name to "City of Kansas City" until 1889.
It was asked who coined the name. Who went by the name first. From what I can tell, the answer to that is Kansas City, Mo and it simply makes no sense for it to be the other way around. Plus, why did the much bigger Wyandotte City want to rename itself to something that a city next door had already taken? That's why the rumor makes some sense. Why else would they do it.

But who knows. I find it interesting and it wouldn't matter either way. You seem to take it personal.
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Old 01-20-2011, 08:30 PM
 
400 posts, read 545,589 times
Reputation: 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by MOKAN View Post
While I haven't found a map that shows it, I believe the original Kansas City in Kansas had extended westward across the Kansas River along lower Central Avenue before the consolidation in 1886 and was more substantial than just the Kansas portion of the west bottoms.
You are correct. The original Kansas City, Kansas annexed Riverview in 1881, which expanded Kansas City, Kansas west of the Kansas River along Central Avenue:

"Between Armstrong and Wyandotte, the edition (sic) of Riverview was founded in 1879. Fifth and Central Avenue was the center of this area. In 1880, the community of Riverview petitioned for annexation into old Kansas City, but the plea was turned down. In May of 1881, however, Kansas City, Kansas, passed an ordinance for annexation of Riverview."

Source: Views of the Past 2: Annexation of Riverview. The Kansas Collection at KCKPL (http://www.kckpl.lib.ks.us/kscoll/lochist/views/views2.htm - broken link)

Here are some additional tidbits about Kansas City, Kansas/Wyandotte:

"January 21, 1879: Kansas Senate passes a resolution declaring Kansas unopposed to Kansas City, Mo.'s request to annex itself to Kansas City, Ks"

"March 7, 1879: Delegation from Kansas City, Mo. arrives in Topeka to discuss with the governor the possibility of annexing to Kansas City, Ks."

Apparently the "City of Kansas", Missouri wanted to annex Kansas City, Kansas in 1879. I assume this would have moved the state line west to the Kansas River, giving Missouri the entire west bottoms. I don't know what happened to this. Obviously the annexation failed.

And this:

"February 15, 1919: Kansas City, Ks., files petition with state legislature to change its name back to Wyandotte"

I don't know anything about this either. Not sure why the name change failed.

Source: http://www.kckpl.lib.ks.us/kscoll/lochist/views/views3.htm (broken link)

Last edited by Blue Earth; 01-20-2011 at 08:45 PM..
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Old 01-20-2011, 09:19 PM
 
400 posts, read 545,589 times
Reputation: 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
It was asked who coined the name. Who went by the name first. From what I can tell, the answer to that is Kansas City, Mo and it simply makes no sense for it to be the other way around. Plus, why did the much bigger Wyandotte City want to rename itself to something that a city next door had already taken? That's why the rumor makes some sense. Why else would they do it.
Apparently, they didn't:

"March 6, 1886: Consolidation of Wyandotte City, Kansas City, Armourdale, Armstrong and Riverview into the City of Kansas City, Ks. Wyandotte City refuses to acknowledge new name"

And:

"February 15, 1919: Kansas City, Ks., files petition with state legislature to change its name back to Wyandotte"

Apparently, Wyandotte didn't like the new name.

Source: Views of the Past 3: Important Dates in Wyandotte County (Part 1). The Kansas Collection at KCKPL (http://www.kckpl.lib.ks.us/kscoll/lochist/views/views3.htm - broken link)

Quote:
But who knows. I find it interesting and it wouldn't matter either way. You seem to take it personal.
No, I just find it hilarious that the first official "Kansas City" was in Kansas. It wouldn't matter much to me, but I know how much you love Kansas, so I had to make sure you knew about this.
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Old 01-21-2011, 04:59 AM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
3,426 posts, read 2,868,593 times
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It looks like KCK has always been about 1/3rd the size of KCMO, but unless things change as the economy rebounds as far as KCK residential construction, that trend is going to change.

Growing up in KCK, the general consensus there was Piper is a good school district. While it is better relative to the KCK district, I'm not so sure it's very good overall. There's a good-old-boy network type of scenario going on and the social fabric out there is intimately connected to all of KCK and its troubles. All of the gov employees live out there and many of their kids are plagued by the social cancer of points east, but because of their connections and relative shelter from the rest of the community....yeah. KCK needs new blood. That's all there is to it. But I really think the ruling class out there probably doesn't want that and is intimidated by the educated/successful type of new blood that would be buying the new housing. While Piper is relatively middle-class, it's mostly gov jobs and local business owners, and very insular. Sort of a big-fish-in-a-small-pond scenario. They don't want their bubble bursted. It's like small-town politics.

As far as the original topic of this thread. OP is certainly a suburb of KCMO. KCK doesn't really have suburbs, maybe Bonner Springs, Edwardsville, Basehor, sort of the same way Lansing is a "suburb" of Leavenworth.

KCK is sort of a suburb of KCMO, but not really. KCK has enough jobs to support its population, and then some probably, and always has. There are 81,200 jobs in WyCo for a population of like 150,000. But from my experience having grown up there, I think KCK is like a small town, something like a less prosperous Topeka or St. Joseph, that just happens to be attached to a large metropolitan area.

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascit...bs-growth.html

KCK is just so incredibly insular. Rarely do you hear anybody over there talking about going to the City Market, P+L, Westport, the Plaza, etc. I don't think typical KCK residents even know where Brookside or Waldo are. They may have gone to the zoo as a kid or have taken their kids there, may have gone on a school field trip to a play downtown, and occasionally go to Oak Park Mall, but the population in KCK is just not that integrated with the rest of the KC area like a suburb would be with its core city and other suburbs. This is even true with people my age I know who live literally a mile west of Westport and the Plaza. But they've been to the Legends! KCK is just weird. As for arguments that the Legends being way out west doesn't serve all of KCK residents - wrong. They go out there, Village West has become the center of the community, even for those in the east. KCK is just weird and like I said, it's as if it is an isolated town an hour from the KC.

Anyway, I wonder what outsiders think of living near Village West and the schools out there. I don't think they're on the map for most people. Of course, until VW was built, there was no reason for outsiders to visit KCK. I imagine many of the types of people who like VW also might like living out that way. KCK could stand to grow its population out there to balance the metro more in that direction. If that happens, it might even help gain interest in urban KCK living options. But there's a long way to go. KCK's highways are the least congested in the KC area and could easily funnel people to jobs downtown, in JoCo, and Platte Co. I guess we'll have to wait and see now that there's something that at least puts the area's geography on the map.
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Old 01-21-2011, 12:32 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
7,744 posts, read 9,490,197 times
Reputation: 3204
Quote:
Originally Posted by MOKAN View Post
It looks like KCK has always been about 1/3rd the size of KCMO, but unless things change as the economy rebounds as far as KCK residential construction, that trend is going to change.

Growing up in KCK, the general consensus there was Piper is a good school district. While it is better relative to the KCK district, I'm not so sure it's very good overall. There's a good-old-boy network type of scenario going on and the social fabric out there is intimately connected to all of KCK and its troubles. All of the gov employees live out there and many of their kids are plagued by the social cancer of points east, but because of their connections and relative shelter from the rest of the community....yeah. KCK needs new blood. That's all there is to it. But I really think the ruling class out there probably doesn't want that and is intimidated by the educated/successful type of new blood that would be buying the new housing. While Piper is relatively middle-class, it's mostly gov jobs and local business owners, and very insular. Sort of a big-fish-in-a-small-pond scenario. They don't want their bubble bursted. It's like small-town politics.

As far as the original topic of this thread. OP is certainly a suburb of KCMO. KCK doesn't really have suburbs, maybe Bonner Springs, Edwardsville, Basehor, sort of the same way Lansing is a "suburb" of Leavenworth.

KCK is sort of a suburb of KCMO, but not really. KCK has enough jobs to support its population, and then some probably, and always has. There are 81,200 jobs in WyCo for a population of like 150,000. But from my experience having grown up there, I think KCK is like a small town, something like a less prosperous Topeka or St. Joseph, that just happens to be attached to a large metropolitan area.

Wyandotte County ranks 11th in U.S. employment growth | Kansas City Business Journal

KCK is just so incredibly insular. Rarely do you hear anybody over there talking about going to the City Market, P+L, Westport, the Plaza, etc. I don't think typical KCK residents even know where Brookside or Waldo are. They may have gone to the zoo as a kid or have taken their kids there, may have gone on a school field trip to a play downtown, and occasionally go to Oak Park Mall, but the population in KCK is just not that integrated with the rest of the KC area like a suburb would be with its core city and other suburbs. This is even true with people my age I know who live literally a mile west of Westport and the Plaza. But they've been to the Legends! KCK is just weird. As for arguments that the Legends being way out west doesn't serve all of KCK residents - wrong. They go out there, Village West has become the center of the community, even for those in the east. KCK is just weird and like I said, it's as if it is an isolated town an hour from the KC.

Anyway, I wonder what outsiders think of living near Village West and the schools out there. I don't think they're on the map for most people. Of course, until VW was built, there was no reason for outsiders to visit KCK. I imagine many of the types of people who like VW also might like living out that way. KCK could stand to grow its population out there to balance the metro more in that direction. If that happens, it might even help gain interest in urban KCK living options. But there's a long way to go. KCK's highways are the least congested in the KC area and could easily funnel people to jobs downtown, in JoCo, and Platte Co. I guess we'll have to wait and see now that there's something that at least puts the area's geography on the map.
Awesome post and IMO dead on. I have a good friend that lives in western KCK (well between 635 & 435) and everything you said he has said. He (and his family) are really very much the same way. They just don't really leave KCK for much even though there really is not much there. But they do love the new suburban shopping and dining options they have and take full advantage of it. But he says a lot of KCK people still don't like Village West. They didn't want it before and still don't want it. Too much change. Too different.

I have always liked KCK. I remember spending a lot of time there exploring the city when I got my first car as the ctiy was so close, yet so isolated and so different from KCMO but gave such interesting perspectives of KCMO from across the river.

It's a very interesting city to explore and you can tell it has a lot of history.

But from the very beginning it developed very different from KCMO. KCMO was developing far more dense and more upscale. Much of KCMO was apartment buildings and the single family homes that did go up tended to be large. While KCK built almost no apartment building (outside the original small downtown core) and the single family homes that went up tended to be more modest and more spread out.

It may not have been a "suburb" at the time, but it was a far less intense city than KCMO and it was a working class / blue collar city through and through just as it is today. The upscale Westheight area was as you said, where the local politicians and business owners lived (which have migrated to turner etc).

But as it grew, I think it became more and more of a suburb. KCK's downtown quickly fell into decay while Indian Springs became one of the metro area's more popular suburban residential and retail areas. The mall is surrounded by modest ranch homes etc. Such growth without a strong core wasn't sustainable though. Once the those suburban areas began to age, there was little reason to live there and it snowballed. Westward growth came to a halt as developed areas to the east began to decline.

What I see in KCK is a ton of potential. As you said, there is no traffic congestion. You can get from Village West to Downtown during rush hour without tapping the brakes. The views of KCMO are amazing. KCK is close to both the Northland and Johnson County plus central KCMO. Why can't downtown KCK become gentrified and filled with condos and sidewalk cafes? Why are there so few homes going up around the Village West area keeping that area such an isolated island? The homes that do go up are further west leaving miles of open land between Village West and developed portions of KCK. Why is there zero interest in KCK from the KS side of the corporate community (outside the taxpayer funded village west area). If Downtown KCK had just 1/10 of what went to JoCo, than KCK could easily have a vibrant central city with more than city and state goverment offices.

KCK IS odd. It's weird. I have always thought of it as an urban area with a countryfied/rural feel. It's the one area of KC that seems to have some southern influence and culture.

But you never know. KCK in 50 years might have a bustling downtown that could rival today's country club plaza. Western KCK could actually see tremendous residential growth rather than only heavily subsidized commercial development in far flung greenfields and the city's midtown could see re-investment. I only hope that would happen.

Last edited by kcmo; 01-21-2011 at 12:57 PM..
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