Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I honestly can't believe anyone calls downtown a traffic mess. I've lived there, I've had to drive through it for work and I've worked down there.
Sure there are delays during rush hour, but it is nothing compared to other cities...
MO keeps losing jobs to KS, as a Missouri resident who has no interest living in bland suburbia (which is MOST, not all of JoCo) I hated having to drive from MO to JoCo. I'd much rather have been driving just downtown. Luckily I don't anymore.... I live where I want and work 10 mins from home. The drive from any of Missouri or KS suburbs into downtown is not bad.. (besides for the extreme far out burbs)... it's very central. Much better then having to drive from North of the river or Blue Springs to JoCo... or vice verse.
I pass gridlock every day heading north on 69 or I35. I repectfully disagree.
Part of the problem is urban sprawl, have you seen the growth in Olathe and south OP?
I 100% agree with you that it's not as bad as most cities but thats one of the appeals to KC-Metro is the shorter commute times.
What does this have to do with anything? I'm sure the suburbs around many cities were developed by residents of the central city.
First off, NE JoCo is fine. Most people there have strong feelings for KCMO. Whenever regional tax polls etc are done, that area of JoCo supports measures like that by like 80%. Much if not most of the donations that come from JoCo to KCMO projects like the Arts Center come from that area. Leaders from that area tend to have more respect for KCMO and are more supportive of regional cooperation. Out of all of the people I know or have interacted with from JoCo, those that respect and appreciate KCMO live in that area of JOCO.
All of that is now totally overshadowed by JoCo outside of 435 (and west of 35) where people oppose regional cooperation by over 70%. Lawmakers from Olathe and Lenexa have even brought bills to Topeka to NEVER ask for a bistate tax again for any reason. They have aggressively killed attempts at a regional transit plan etc.
JoCo is a different animal now that most of the people and its economy are now outside of NE JoC and the people of NE JoCo get a bad rap over it.
I'm just going to throw up the white flag. You win. No one really wins if Johnson County grows at the expense of the urban core. I still think it goes on in every major city, so I don't get the exaggerated reaction when it happens in KC.
I'm just going to throw up the white flag. You win. No one really wins if Johnson County grows at the expense of the urban core. I still think it goes on in every major city, so I don't get the exaggerated reaction when it happens in KC.
It does, so Johnson County is no different in that respect. And much of it would have happened anyway - without the additional tax incentives - as most people find the suburban environment preferable in which to live and work.
But I do agree with those who contend that offering special tax break packages not available to all in order to lure corporations is unethical and unfair.
But Johnson County is not the capital, Topeka is. Topeka is very much a part of the problem.
Maybe because those in Topeka are there because they were elected primarily via JoCo voters?
Well, <25% of KS is in JOCO and on top of that a disproportionate amount of democratic voters as well.
So suddenly the argument is morphing that the 4% of the state population in OP is now the 20+% JOCO group ....and that they must all vote for one party I suppose.
Topeka, death to topeka! They are to blame for all that is wrong in Missouri!
I'm just going to throw up the white flag. You win. No one really wins if Johnson County grows at the expense of the urban core. I still think it goes on in every major city, so I don't get the exaggerated reaction when it happens in KC.
I agreed with him too....expect further attacks about how you support OP or whatever poaching jobs from KCMO. Perhaps we are in a time-warp?
I've been a resident of Kansas for 28 years.. I've lived all over Kansas.. Including Salina, Wichita, Manhattan. When you speak on the ills of Kansas, you have it completely right. Kansas has never addressed growing its economy outside of Northeast Kansas and primarily Johnson county. If anyone really thinks it is ok for a metro area to grow and prosper and just relocate businesses a few miles away so they can pay less local taxes to the region as a whole is just plain in la la land and is totally delusional
I am a college graduate from Kansas State, and have had issues galore finding stable employment in this state. I feel like the politicians in Kansas (and for that matter everywhere) are out to pad their numbers for themselves and not out to help common residents whatsoever. What is increasingly frustrating about Kansas is how the state is not addressing issues for so many residents and places.
1. Kansas has given very little help to Wichita and has repeatedly given far more clout to the KC area politically and economically. Wichita is starting to really hurt economically with major plants closing or relocating, and major employers outsourcing. Even if the economy recovers quickly and strongly (which is highly unlikely anytime soon) Wichita will not gain these jobs back. This can be blamed for on Wichita leadership too, but will hurt the state of Kansas greatly. So why is it never addressed statewide??
2. Topeka has been given a reputation as being a complete ghetto with high crime and many people are ashamed of it. It has improved a little but still has many struggles with various issues and its going to be a small miracle if Topeka can ever get rid of these issues and that stigma.
3. Outside of Lawrence (which is indirectly helped by KC) and El Dorado (helped by Wichita but who knows for how long) and Manhattan, (helped by a big military increase) Most Kansas towns are struggling and hurting badly and losing population rapidly. People my age are leaving in droves and do not want to be here. People my age are starting to wake up to the fact of how poorly this state has been run and do not want to be associated with it anymore. We have many towns in this state that have only an older population. What are these towns going to consist of in 30 years if we do not address this? Are we going to still just bribe a few Kansas City Missouri businesses to cover up the ongoing issues to make it look good?
Kansas has to learn to serve ALL its citizens. First off, Johnson County is slowly being exposed.. You cannot continue to support schools, roads, etc... if you are letting businesses come in with such high incentives your state and local area do not profit. This is economics 101.. If you need another example: Its what our country has been doing fiscally the last 30+ years and thats really working out well (notice my sarcasm)
The entire KC area needs to make a regional partnership of equal representation of all counties in the KCMO metro area and they work on working together. It may be painful and have some issues, but this beats the bickering that has gone on for years and helps the region. Keep the rivalry between sports rivals, and even citizens if they want, but please for the sake of the metro and the gain of BOTH states, work together..
With that said, if things stay as they have been, I will gladly be a Missouri resident before way long. I know Missouri has issues, I'm not claiming its perfect by any means, but I can not support a state I've lived in my whole life that continues to do this. It speaks volumes when I am someone who really loves Kansas nature, Kansas weather, has powerful Kansas connections, family, friends is really thinking about leaving this state.
I would give you more than one rep point if I was allowed to. I agree 100%
I am another one who saw little future in staying in Kansas, so I have moved to a number of places since leaving, mainly to advance my career. I would have serious issues about ever coming back. The people that STAY in Kansas tend to be those that get married at a very young age and have kids. That never appealed to me at all, so that inherently gives the green light for most single people to move elsewhere if they are financially able to.
I also DO NOT care for the social culture of Kansas as well as JOCO, and dislike that the far right fringe social conservatives have taken over things. This, combined with ECONOMIC LIBERALISM, is just an unbelievable hypocrisy at the state level. This comes full circle to the topic that we have been discussing here on this thread, including STAR bonds- promoting corporate socialism, while taxpayers socialize the costs of the inherent incentivized spending spree.
Yes, the state of KS has ABSOLUTELY 100% put ALL of their eggs in the JOCO basket. Most of the rest of the state is completely falling apart, and has been doing so for quite a long time.
Last edited by GraniteStater; 11-16-2010 at 09:05 PM..
What would be interesting to study (as a metro-wide issue) is how much of JOCO's economic growth since the year 2000 (in terms of employment growth) has come at the expense of Jackson County, and how much of that growth is from businesses that were started in JOCO, or have been there a long period of time. We will know much more in the next year or two as the economic census data comes out. This will be very interesting for the KC metro as the differential in terms of job growth/decline reached 20% JUST OVER A 7 YEAR PERIOD OF TIME (2000-2007). So, one can get a more concrete case of factual evidence of jobs rapidly shifting over the state line- as well a case study documenting all of examples of this occurring at the ground level (businesses relocating due to specific levels of incentives via STAR bonding, the vast majority of it being funneled directly into JOCO).
This thread would not be so long and have so many posters from both sides of the issue if people were in agreement. A few have agreed that's it's not a good thing, but with disclosures or excuses as to why it can be justified.
I'm saying there is no justification for it and no, it does not happen at near the extent in other cities as it does in KC. KC has a unique situation with the state line and a complete and total lack of cooperation and respect across that state line, primarily from the KS side.
Please. Find me one example of a suburb in another city that has aggressively gone after urban core companies with tens of millions of dollars in incentives.
You will be hard pressed to find one. Yet you can find a half dozen in KC in just the past couple of years.
KCMO is not a terrible place to work or do business. I have worked in the downtown, crown center and the plaza areas for the better part of 20 years. The areas are fine, safe, and very comparable to any other major city. It's not like KCMO is running people off to the suburbs. If that were the case, why is I-470 not lined with office parks in MO like 435 is in KS?
If Lee's Summit and Missouri were somehow able to offer 20-50 million for AMC to move there, it too would be lined with office buildings filled with tenants that used to be in KCMO and I would be equally against such a thing happening.
Kansas City used to fair very well in down economies like this. This time is different. KC is hurting and is not doing as well as most other large midwestern markets. There have been almost no new office buildings built in metro KC in over a decade other then when a kcmo company moves to Kansas (like when Quintiles moved from SKC using 50 million in incentives) or when KCMO is forced to offer massive incentives to keep a company in KCMO that threatens to move to Kasnas otherwise (H&R Block, KMBC TV 9) etc.
KC's economy appears good on the surface. But it's a mirage of companies migrating around town to get the next big corporate handout and that is showing through big time in this recession. Very little new job creation has been going on (even before recession). But lot's of claimed victories of landing jobs (from 10 miles away) and the overall corporate tax base in metro KC has to be dropping like a rock.
Of course it happens everywhere. But not at the level it's happening in KC.
Those links are more about taxpayer funded projects not setting out to lure a company from a city ten miles away with tens of millions in incentives.
That map in that last link is sweet!
BTW, the Historic MO Tax credits are well worth their cost. If it were not for those, most of the residential rehab projects in KC and STL would still be vacant warehouses.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
