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Cerner does not own Sporting Kansas City or the stadium. They are not even affiliated in anyway. Two members of OnGoal, LLC who do own the club happen to also be Cerner's founders. That is the extent of their affiliation.
Cerner does not own Sporting Kansas City or the stadium. They are not even affiliated in anyway. Two members of OnGoal, LLC who do own the club happen to also be Cerner's founders. That is the extent of their affiliation.
I understand that, but was trying to keep things simplified. They are heavily tied indirectly and you know it.
You keep taking the high road here.
What's done is done. I'm just not a fan of what's been done. Lost of people are more than fine with it. It's your city now, I have little interest in returning, I wonder why I still care haha.
But my passion for the hometown just won't go away for some reason.
I understand that, but was trying to keep things simplified. They are heavily tied indirectly and you know it.
They are tied indirectly but it is only because two people are involved with both companies. However, the organizations themselves do not have any official business affiliation. OnGoal, LLC consist of 5 guys and only 2 are from Cerner and those two might have the least involvement with running the team. That's it. Saying Cerner owns the team isnt simplifying anything because it is flat out wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo
You keep taking the high road here.
I dont understand what is so bad about what has been done. Do you realize that this is their 4th stadium proposal? They have tried multiple avenues to get a stadium and this one actually stuck. Getting a stadium built is not easy. Just check the history on DC United getting a stadium. They have like 10 failed attempts and the club could end up in Baltimore.
The team wanted to go to Bannister. The team spent 22 million dollars working on that site. Let me repeat that, 22 million frickin' dollars of their own money trying to develop that site. If that doesnt tell you how committed they were, I dont know what to tell you. The deal wasnt going to get done, they have no choice but to bail.
So what exactly did the team do wrong here? They needed a stadium so that this team could post a profit for the first time in their history. It's not like this team is bleeding money. It's not like the owners have tens of millions between them like an NFL owner. This team has never made a profit. No MLS team that didnt have their stadium has done so.
Regardless of how technical you are about it, Cerner is directly tied to that team. That is why the office project followed the stadium out to village west. I understand the "company" does not technically own the team.
I'm not sure who to blame here. I have mixed feelings. I actually like Cerner as a company. They actually moved into the massive Quintiles building near the Grandview Triangle after Quintiles bolted for JoCo when they were handed like 50 million in kansas cash to move from five miles away in KCMO. Cerner stepped up and was trying to bring back SKC which was devastated by the JoCo poaching.
But I am disappointed in Cerner now. You know business don't you? They may have "invested" 20 million at the bannister mall site, but I'm sure that was not a huge loss as that land and whatever they invested is just a tax shelter for now and compared to getting hundreds of millions for a new stadium and their new office buildings, I don't think it will compare. Plus they still have the land which is probably worth at least what they have in it.
Few states hand out the kind of cash Kansas does. I have lived in the DC-Balt area now for a while and follow business closely and there is a reason they can't get a stadium built here. The cities, counties and states just don't pass out free money. It doesn't happen. Even urban redevelopment projects out here have a difficult time getting a fraction of the incentives that Kansas hands out to build on farm fields. And VA, MD and DC at least respect each other, they compete, but not like KS does with KCMO. The states don't set out to steal DC and Balt companies at any cost. They know it's not worth it. You see, they are too busy paying their teachers 80k and funding subways and light rails and parks to give companies free rides, especially companies that are already in the metro.
I wish the KC team well, but all I see are missed opportunities and subsidized sprawl.
If 95% of KCK were not a joke or if there wasn't massive swaths of blight and decay across the metro (even in suburban areas like Bannister). Good god, Where oh where can you find a place in any metro where 2 million square feet of retail along a beltway has been completely destroyed and vacated with zero plans for serious redevelopment? That's just one location. Metro North, Metcalf South, Noland Road, Truman Corners, Antioch Center. ****, there are brand new vacant malls in Merriam, Northland and Independence. Indians Springs and Mission Center malls are both dirt patches and JoCo is trying to star bond new retail blocks from bankrupt malls that are also subsidized and can't get tenants. It's crazy there. Sales taxes are sky high in metro KC and what do you get for it? Empty new malls and decaying old ones. Out here you get transit lines, bike trails etc at least. KC will never ever build a light rail system because the sales taxes are already at or above 10%, far higher than anything I have seen here.
And you can say malls are going out of style in all metros, but in most metros the malls get re-built (turned into lifestyle malls) or their site is quickly redeveloped into mixed use, housing etc. Rarely do you see total abandonment like you do all across KC.
So, I'm more upset about the throw away culture of KC and the fact that KC is ok with subsidizing such culture.
Cerner and Sporting are just the latest in a very long list...
Well at least no one in this thread painfully distorted a pretty nice story about a company doing good for charity to benefit their own twisted agenda.
Well at least no one in this thread painfully distorted a pretty nice story about a company doing good for charity to benefit their own twisted agenda.
If twisted agenda = smart growth and proper use of incentives, than yep, my agenda is pretty darn twisted!
If twisted agenda = smart growth and proper use of incentives, than yep, my agenda is pretty darn twisted!
You somehow turned a story about a professional sports team and multi-million dollar business forgoing millions in revenue to donate millions to charity into a Kansas v. Missouri thing.
Recorded the KC vs LA game and just watched it. Wow, KC's new stadium rocks. Looks great on TV. (still not fond of the location, but still a great venue for metro KC).
Recorded the KC vs LA game and just watched it. Wow, KC's new stadium rocks. Looks great on TV. (still not fond of the location, but still a great venue for metro KC).
TV doesnt even do it justice. You really need to visit it in person.
I was one that preferred the Bannister location but now that I have had nearly a full season of games there, I think this was for the best.
They have nearly 12k season ticket holders and growing, they have had near sell outs every single game, and people seem to be able to enjoy easy access to restaurants and shops. I am not sure this would have been duplicated over at Bannister or at least right away because of the stigma attached to that area.
I'll save everybody the trouble and quote the post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo
They got money to build a free stadium in a far flung greenfiled and will probably get enough PEAK (Pre-Emptively Attacking Kcmo) money in addition to STAR bond money and other incentives to build the cerner office complex (also in a greenfield, miles from anything) with little private money all while they tore down the bannister mall prematurely and basically said FU to south kansas city which had tens of thousands of people (not cows) really hoping they that project would go through.
The least they can do is a PR move like this that will probably give them a bigger net profit because they can write off that "donation" that is probably going to be much more than a standard stadium sponsorship would have been, so no real loss for cerner there, but great pub.
So, I think it's just a PR move and it worked. But at least it does help a good cause in the end.
But I will always see the project as exactly what is wrong with how metro KC uses massive amounts of incentives to subsidize suburban sprawl, making those same incentives essentially worthless for redevelopment projects and making redeveloping areas infinitely more difficult.
I mean if you can use such aggressive incentives to build on wheat fields in the middle of nowhere, what is the incentive to even think of using them to redevelop an urban (or aging suburban) area that has far more costs and challenges to overcome?
KC has so much blight and abandonment (and the crime that comes with it) throughout the metro with a handful of suburban corners that shine like everything is fine and dandy and this is just one of the many reasons why that is the case.
If you really love KC, I don't see how you can possibly not agree with some of what I was saying and continue to say. I would have said the EXACT same thing had they done a similar project in Lee's Summit, Blue Springs, Liberty etc and I would have FULLY SUPPORTED the project in KCK if it were actually a part of a redevelopment project that actually did something for metro KC besides subsidize sprawl. Every time I visit KC and the more time I spend in other cities, the more I realize just how sprawled out and how widespread blight is there. So much of the metro outside of parts of Downtown and the Plaza and the outer ring of suburban sprawl is a total mess yet everybody there is okay with projects like Village West, Prariefire, Summit Woods etc that are subsidized by taxpayers. There is ZERO incentive to do anything buy walk away from existing built up areas in metro KC and let them rot away. Even my kids notice that KC is just not right. It's still one of the most "donut effect" cities in the country and that includes vast parts of the inner suburbs such as most of KCK. The city has turned into the JoCo metro area and considering that most of what's in JoCo is subsidized sprawl or even poached from KCK/KCMO, how is that ultimately good for KC? It's not. But everybody in KC is fine with all of KC's economy moving across state line into subsidized office parks along 435. JoCo and Kansas have zero interest in maintain the zoo, or the sports complex or the nelson. Only if they move or build new in JoC would they take an interest. How is that good for the metro? All you have to do is look at what places like Denver and Minneapolis do as metro and how the suburbs actually support the urban cities rather than destroy them for there own short term and short sighted benefits.
But the stadium was built where it is and it is what it is now. I simply congratulated Sporting for winning as a KC sports team. And there is nothing wrong with clarifying to people that the urban center and the vast majority of KC's attractions are in Missouri. Most people I know from the Kansas side do it too. Explaining the geography of KC is simply part of living in greater KC.
Now, I'm sorry if you don't like what I say, but I'm going to defend myself in these threads because I have done nothing wrong. I don't even post in this forum much anymore. KC is my hometown and I don't like watching it continue to self destruct as a metro, but I have thrown in the towel for the most part. KC can sprawl and decay into oblivion. Maybe they can move Kauffman Stadium to Oak Grove and the Nelson to Gardner.
But you will find very few people that have put as much effort into marketing and promoting KC as I have and I have found few if any since I left.
KC is home and is generally underrated, but this is the reason I don't miss it it all. It's not just this forum. Metro KC couldn't get on the same page if its future depended on it and it has been proven over and over again.
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