Long ago on independence square (Glendale, Goodman: salons, calculated, gardens)

[pearjas]

hmmm...interesting... and the mystery continues.

Originally Posted by Mad Anthonie

Would you please clarify, which address were they at 301 or 1303? Each is near a rail line.


My 1988 Polk's has the county there, but it seems to me someone else may have been there right after the Examiner.

[WCHS'59]

Originally Posted by WCHS'59

Old timers in Independence might remember Connie Mack. In the early 1950s, an aging Connie Mack would soon have an impact on everyone in the Kansas City area including in Independence.

Connie Mack was the sole owner and manager of the Philadelphia Athletics over the club’s fifty some year history. He also owned the baseball stadium, Connie Mack Stadium, where the team played and rented it out to the rival National League Philadelphia Phillies to play there when the A’s were out of town. As his team manager, Connie Mack never wore a uniform. He always wore a business suit.

Connie Mack was 88 when the American League forced the moving of the A’s because of their average 4,000 attendance per game. Arnold Johnson bought the club in 1954 and moved the team to Kansas City the following year. Although the team was able to draw well over one million fans the first and second years, attendance went downhill from there. Every year, the team was consistently last or next to last.

And then along came Charlie Finley who purchased the team and thought he had some good ideas that would make them a winning operation. He got rid of the traditional white elephant as the A’s mascot and replaced it with a mule, a Missouri mule. Charlie O. the mule became the team mascot.

Finley outfitted the team in Kelly green, gold, and wedding gown white uniforms and white kangaroo leather shoes. They were the first sports team to go “psychedelic.” Their uniform was the same for home as it was on the road.

Finley also wanted to have orange baseballs but was voted down by major league baseball. At 22nd and Brooklyn in Kansas City’s 32,000-seat Municipal Stadium he tried to shorten the distance to the right field bleachers to benefit his players and called those bleachers the Pennant Porch. However, baseball would not let him bring those bleachers in so then he began advertising them as the Half-Pennant Porch. I sat there for a number of games. Elmer Valo, Enos Slaughter, Bob Cerv, Harry Simpson, Gus Zerinial, Bobby and Wilmer Shantz, and Vic Power are some of the players I can remember. Satchel Paige even pitched a game for the Kansas City Athletics in 1965.

In 1968 Finley moved the team to Oakland because of their dismal attendance. They attracted only 727,000 in their last year. Their best won-lost record in Kansas City was 74-86.

Kansas City was able to create a new team from scratch and called them the Kansas City Royals, named after the American Royal.

Speaking of Lee's Summit Road and speaking of the Kansas City Athletics.

Sometime around late 1963 when his lease was up for renewal, the gutsy Charlie Finley was unhappy about his Kansas City ball stadium lease arrangements and threatened to build a new temporary stadium in the area north of 39th Street and west of Lee's Summit Road. There was a considerable expanse of farm land in this area at the time. Independence folks were enthusiastic about this stadium proposal but in the end it appeared to be a publicity stunt by Finley to squeeze more favorable lease terms from the city of Kansas City.

Finley said:

“I will rent a cow pasture and put up temporary stands for the team to use next year. I’m talking about renting or leasing about 300 acres of land and building a temporary stadium with bleacher-type seats, lights and all modern facilities. It probably would cost me a million dollars, but I’m willing to do that if necessary.”

Before moving to Oakland, Finley tried to move to Dallas but was voted down by the American League owners. He also wanted to move to Louisville but was again voted down.

[MRG Dallas]

And sure enough, Finley took the A's out of KC right when they were growing towards dominance. As we saw with the Royals, the city would have supported a winner, and certainly much better than Oakland ever did. No doubt COF doubted the move the rest of his life. He was quite the character and many of his ideas stuck (colorful uniforms, night World Series games).

[SilverDoc]

Originally Posted by WCHS'59

That would make sense because both Main and Liberty ended at Frances. This place must have closed a long time ago.

You might have already done this, but if not:

[WCHS'59]

In the late sixties while I was on a three year assignment to Germany, I took up model railroading, HO Scale.

The name of my layout was the Sibley, Six-Mile, and Western Railroad. The layout geography was intended for the Little Blue valley area. Sibley, sixteen miles north of the square, is where Fort Osage is located. There was, and still is, an area close to the fort called Six-Mile. There was no town by that name. It was just an area. There is a Six-Mile cemetery but I have never been there. There is also a Six-Mile Church.

The name of my crack passenger streamliner was the “Osage Warrior,” named after the former Osage presence in Jackson County. The tribe was moved to southeast Kansas in the early 1800s and later to Oklahoma in 1870. In the overall scheme of things, Fort Osage did not last long having closed down in 1822 and operations moved to Fort Scott, Kansas.

I had some rather slick credit card size passes made up entitling the bearer to a free life time pass on the streamliner. I exchanged these passes with other model railroaders throughout the U.S. This was a part of the hobby back in the sixties, mainly sponsored by Model Railroad Craftsman magazine.

On a lark, I mailed a pass to former President Truman—and received a response from him thanking me. I still have that letter.


If there is anyone who is familiar with the Six-Mile area, maybe you could give us some information about it.

[MRG Dallas]

Originally Posted by WCHS'59

In the late sixties while I was on a three year assignment to Germany, I took up model railroading, HO Scale.

The name of my layout was the Sibley, Six-Mile, and Western Railroad. The layout geography was intended for the Little Blue valley area. Sibley, sixteen miles north of the square, is where Fort Osage is located. There was, and still is, an area close to the fort called Six-Mile. There was no town by that name. It was just an area. There is a Six-Mile cemetery but I have never been there. There is also a Six-Mile Church.

The name of my crack passenger streamliner was the “Osage Warrior,” named after the former Osage presence in Jackson County. The tribe was moved to southeast Kansas in the early 1800s and later to Oklahoma in 1870. In the overall scheme of things, Fort Osage did not last long having closed down in 1822 and operations moved to Fort Scott, Kansas.

I had some rather slick credit card size passes made up entitling the bearer to a free life time pass on the streamliner. I exchanged these passes with other model railroaders throughout the U.S. This was a part of the hobby back in the sixties, mainly sponsored by Model Railroad Craftsman magazine.

On a lark, I mailed a pass to former President Truman—and received a response from him thanking me. I still have that letter.


If there is anyone who is familiar with the Six-Mile area, maybe you could give us some information about it.

I hadn't thought of cemeteries near Ft Osage in years but your post reminded me my great grandmother was buried in that area. While I didn't find her listed in the Six-Mile, I did find the other side of the family with 5-6 plots. An online search showed there was also a Sibley Cemetery and sure enough, there is the GGM side. Not sure I would have ever remembered this without the memory jog.

The Six-Mile did not ring a bell. Fred probably can shed some light since he was from around Sibley/Atherton.

[WCHS'59]

Here are some interesting Independence population figures from Wikipedia.

The huge increase in 1950 was caused by the 1948 annexation that doubled the city's land area and took in Maywood and Englewood to the west and eastern areas almost to Lee's Summit Road.

The 1960 and 1970 increase results from several annexations, also.

Since 1970 Independence has grown by less than five percent.

That could increase due to the new north-south parkways in eastern Independence recently or being completed.

I recall reading a planning document from the 1970s in which it was predicted Independence would have a population of 220,000 by the year 2000.

1860 3,164
1870 3,284 .6%
1880 3,146 -1.2%
1890 6,380 102.8%
1900 6,974 9.3%
1910 8,859 41.4%
1920 11,686 18.5%
1930 15,296 30.9%
1940 16,066 5.0%
1950 36,963 130.1%
1960 62,328 68.6%
1970 111,630 79.1%
1980 111,806 .2%
1990 112,295 .4%
2000 113,288 .9%
2010 116,830 3.1%

[MRG Dallas]

Since 1970 Independence has grown by less than five percent.

That could increase due to the new north-south parkways in eastern Independence recently or being completed.

I recall reading a planning document from the 1970s in which it was predicted Independence would have a population of 220,000 by the year 2000.

The I-70 corridor is likely what stunted I's growth. Much easier to move down the Interstate and get Downtown, etc. I remember in 1970 a neighbor was moving to Blue Springs and I thought, why? That's waaaaayyyy out there. The selfish side of me would like to see Independence remain rural/semi rural in the east.

[WCHS'59]

In 1958, there was a Blue Springs city limit sign on highway forty that listed a population that coincided with the year, that is 1,958.

Blue Springs had just annexed the area around highway forty. I, for one, did not think Blue Springs would ever amount to much.

The 2010 Blue Springs population was 52,575--about a 27 fold increase from 1958 and is only 22 square miles in area.

Lee's Summit had a population of 8,267 in 1960 and 91,364 in 2010, about an eleven fold increase. Lee's Summit has a area of 61 square miles.

[Mad Anthonie]

Originally Posted by MRG Dallas

Oldkc.com lists a pic from Doutt's "circa 1970" in its collection. Since it's a pay site I couldn't view it but was a bit surprised it might have still been open in 70, as Noland was getting packed about then.

My Beloved went swimming there in about 1964-5. It was closed by 1980, but the large slide was still in place.

Originally Posted by WCHS'59

Isn't that both strange and interesting. Wonder who uses it for drinking?

I found the site where Dallas got that info, but it is incorrect. Doutt's Lake was never used for drinking water, unless the Doutt family used it. Independence water has come from artesian wells in the Missouri River Valley for many years. The area drained by the lake is very small, as that area is along the "city divide". Roughly east of Noland drains to the Little Blue River, west of Noland to Rock Creek. The dam is owned by the UPRR, as it is their railbed, but I'm pretty sure the lake is privately owned.

My Beloved is pretty sure access to the lake was from Francis, with parking on the property.

[quote=MRG Dallas;25853988]

Originally Posted by Mad Anthonie

Would you please clarify, which address were they at 301 or 1303? Each is near a rail line.

Pyper's has been at three 23rd (Alton) addresses. The 60 Polks lists Pyper's Place at 301 W 23rd, which places them at Chrysler. The 1950 Polk's has Pyper's Lunch Wagon at the 1303 address. WCHS said they moved westward due to the construction of the overpass, and later became the predecessor location where Clem's is at 10800 block of E. 23rd (@ Northern).

1950 1303
1960 301 W. 23tf
Subsequently 10800 E. 23rd

My Beloved went to school with Paree Pyper of the Pyper family. She remembers when they introduced curly fries to the area.

Originally Posted by WCHS'59

I am guessing Lee's Summit Road looking north towards 23rd Street in the distance.

I'm guessing you are correct. The wall along the east side is for the old Glendale Farm/Blevins Davis mansion. The field on the left is part of Drumm Farm. Photo taken from about 31st St.

Originally Posted by MRG Dallas

I hadn't thought of cemeteries near Ft Osage in years but your post reminded me my great grandmother was buried in that area. While I didn't find her listed in the Six-Mile, I did find the other side of the family with 5-6 plots. An online search showed there was also a Sibley Cemetery and sure enough, there is the GGM side. Not sure I would have ever remembered this without the memory jog.

The Six-Mile did not ring a bell. Fred probably can shed some light since he was from around Sibley/Atherton.

A great resource for such research is www.findagrave.com

WHEH! Now I'm caught up!!