05-03-2011, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
kcmo
^ I'm not so sure that ACT scores is a real good way to measure this. Maybe it is.
But if you look at that, MS, AL, LA have better schools than CO, MD, MA etc? Not so sure about that.
I'm no expert on this and don't claim to be. But back in MO it was like the kids were taught just to pass specific tests like the MAP test while out there, they seem to teach in a different way. It's less about how they will test and more about what they learn and how they can apply that to college level courses.
If your kids are doing too well out here, they assume the classes are not advanced enough and the child is not challenged and so they push your kids and doing so may actually reduce some scores and tests and grades, but the kids get more out of it.
You also have districts out here that are extremely large and diverse and still rank very high. It seems like in the Midwest if it's not an all white suburban district than it's not a good district. I think it's easy to get good act scores and state scores in districts with the top of the economic demographic and very little social issues, language and cultural barriers.
Look at Montgomery County, MD for example. So many different races and cultures and languages in a district that is both urban and suburban yet has 150,000 students.
That's like the entire MO side of KC all in one district. What they pull off is absolutely amazing. Overland Park and Lee's Summit should be easy compared to that.
Having said that I do think the schools in the suburban KC area are very good. I'm just very impressed with the schools out here, but that is from my very limited perspective.
Excellent that you are having good experiences "out there " KCMO, but teaching to " a test" is a legacy of NCLB and high stakes testing, not a quality unique to MO or any other state. All states have it. There are some OUTSTANDING suburban districts in the DC area, and you may be in one of those. I am certain you could find those within a 20 or 30 mile radius who are completely unhappy with their school experiences as well.
As the saying goes about politics, it is even more so with schools in the US: It is all local. Districts vary wildly within a state or region, individual schools within a district vary, and some teachers are great for one kid and can't do anything with another kid. I think it is terribly hard to make sweeping statements about education based on anecdotal experience or even stats like ACT, etc. You have mentioned that your wife is a teacher...so I know I am not telling you anything you don't already know.
Besides, you seem to be going through your "honeymoon phase" with DC. Everything they do is great.
KC has turned into your bad ex. Can't get a thing right.
Excellent question about the stat aragx6 ... if we are only talking about students entering community college, that changes the numbers dramatically. Many of the better prepared students will already be attending 4 year institutions, so the pool of students drawn from as community college attendees are already a particular population. They may be on the fence about education or unable to get into a more competitive university. And please don't yell at me about that statement...I love the C. College system, I have taught at three different C. Colleges, and there are lots of great students and faculty there. But they serve a certain population ( on purpose!) and it is not surprising that more of the students in that subset need extra help once they make it to college.
05-03-2011, 03:34 PM
Location: Tower Grove East, St. Louis, MO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykamom
But they serve a certain population ( on purpose!) and it is not surprising that more of the students in that subset need extra help once they make it to college.
Exactly right. I hope my post didn't come across as snotty or in any way derisive of the community college system -- that definitely wasn't my intent. But one of the main purposes of a community college is to allow students who haven't had the college preparatory experience the ability to continue to pursue higher education. That doesn't mean LS schools or any other has necessarily failed these children -- there are so many variables.
05-03-2011, 03:44 PM
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^^No, no snottiness detected at all!
I think you are absolutely correct.
05-03-2011, 09:13 PM
Location: Middle America
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykamom
Excellent that you are having good experiences "out there " KCMO, but teaching to " a test" is a legacy of NCLB and high stakes testing, not a quality unique to MO or any other state. All states have it. There are some OUTSTANDING suburban districts in the DC area, and you may be in one of those. I am certain you could find those within a 20 or 30 mile radius who are completely unhappy with their school experiences as well.
This ^^ . Teaching with most focus being given to standardized testing performance is NOT something that's specific to Missouri...it's endemic to public education nationwide thanks to poorly thought out federal mandates. Missouri as a state doesn't have a great track record with public education, as a whole (I'm in the process of switching certification from a state with a stellar reputation, in terms of academic excellence in public schools, so the contrast is quite vivid). But the teaching to the test dilemma is absolutely not a Missouri-centric thing, or a Midwest-centric thing...it's an NCLB thing.
05-04-2011, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
kcmo
Yea, I think that's the case with us. I think our kids would do well in just about any district, even a district like KCMO because they would excel in their own circle and take full advantage of what the district offers, even if they are only in about 3% of the students.
.........................
The only problem with that is you would have JoCo out there on a pedestal because its demographics are almost entirely middle to upper middle class suburban.
You might be shocked to learn that a gradeschool in my area smack in the middle of JOCO is going to be certified Title 1 (>50% of the students on financial assistance) this year.
There are blocks and blocks and blocks of apartments throughout JOCO packed full of young families with low incomes, largely hispanic, that enjoy the area for the quality of the public schools and a desire to get ahead.
I personally like this because I grew up in a school where my one buddy never had a real bed to sleep on his whole life and another kid in my class drove a new volvo to highschool. I appreciate the variety and lessons this teaches.
05-04-2011, 09:40 AM
Location: KC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
TabulaRasa
...it's an NCLB thing.
Bingo, I spend literally ALL of my planning on how to really teach my students while still "teaching" my students according to what NCLB thinks is teaching. I have a colleague who refers to NCLB as No Child Left Untested. 100% by 2014 here we come
Although the standards are getting ready to change again, so we'll see if that will help with the issues at the national level tests that we have for the most part fixed at the classroom level. Looks like they may be more expeditionary learning supported, so maybe the fed decided to match the standards to a more truly educational approach. Regardless, true education is still alive in classrooms all across the country no matter what the government does. I have the pleasure of working with and knowing many amazing educators
Happy Teacher Appreciation Week!
05-04-2011, 09:45 AM
Location: KC
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Mathguy, I completely agree that students learn so much about real life in a truly diverse setting. Just because a school is in the city doesn't make it diverse, in fact that is seldom the case in similar ways to suburban schools lacking that diversity. It's the places in the middle that offer the most real world experiences. I was lucky to have that experience, and I'm better for it.
05-04-2011, 11:50 AM
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Regardless, true education is still alive in classrooms all across the country no matter what the government does. I have the pleasure of working with and knowing many amazing educators
Yes, happily I agree with you on this. It is incredible but despite all odds there is a certain type of person that enters and loves the teaching profession, in spite of all the efforts made to undermine the profession in the eyes of the public. There are always some great people doing wonderful things. That is why, as I said before, it is often about that particular teacher in that room with that student. You can dismiss the stats and test scores lots of times. If that mix is working, you are experiencing a "good school." For this reason, reviews and attitudes about schools vary wildly.
05-18-2011, 09:48 AM
Location: Lee's Summit, MO
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Here is the link to the information.
It's news to me (http://www.lsjournal.com/2011/03/24/64487/its-news-to-me.html - broken link)
A few interesting facts should also be noted from the forum.
Plaas said that 42 percent of R-7 graduates that attend local community colleges must take remedial mathematics and English.
Another was that board candidate Mike Smith has never been a school board meeting, a fact that Wiley chided him on.
“It is incumbent on a candidate to attend a board meeting when you file,” Wiley noted.
Candidate Terri Harmon was unable to stay past the first 15 minutes of the forum due to a family commitment.
05-18-2011, 09:50 AM
Location: Lee's Summit, MO
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Lee's Summit Has Dropped In Rankings
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Commute - mean travel time to work (minutes)
Travel time to work - Less than 5 minutes (%)
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Educational Attainment - No schooling completed (%)
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Urban houses (%)
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Mortgage status - with mortgage (%)
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Mortgage status - with home equity loan (%)
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Mortgage status - without a mortgage (%)
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Average family size - White
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Geographical mobility - Same house 1 year ago (%)
Geographical mobility - Moved within same county (%)
Geographical mobility - Moved from different county within same state (%)
Geographical mobility - Moved from different state (%)
Geographical mobility - Moved from abroad (%)
Place of birth - Born in state of residence (%)
Place of birth - Born in other state (%)
Place of birth - Native, outside of US (%)
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Housing units in structures - 1, detached (%)
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Housing units in structures - 2 (%)
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Housing units in structures - 20 to 49 (%)
Housing units in structures - 50 or more (%)
Housing units in structures - Mobile home (%)
Housing units in structures - Boat, RV, van, etc. (%)
House/condo owner moved in on average (years ago)
Renter moved in on average (years ago)
Year householder moved into unit - Moved in 1999 to March 2000 (%)
Year householder moved into unit - Moved in 1995 to 1998 (%)
Year householder moved into unit - Moved in 1990 to 1994 (%)
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Means of transportation to work - Drove car alone (%)
Means of transportation to work - Carpooled (%)
Means of transportation to work - Public transportation (%)
Means of transportation to work - Bus or trolley bus (%)
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Means of transportation to work - Motorcycle (%)
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Working at home (%)
Industry diversity
Most Common Industries - Agriculture, forestry, fishing and hunting, and mining (%)
Most Common Industries - Agriculture, forestry, fishing and hunting (%)
Most Common Industries - Mining, quarrying, and oil and gas extraction (%)
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Occupation diversity
Most Common Occupations - Management, business, science, and arts occupations (%)
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Most Common Occupations - Fire fighting and prevention, and other protective service workers including supervisors (%)
Most Common Occupations - Law enforcement workers including supervisors (%)
Most Common Occupations - Food preparation and serving related occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Building and grounds cleaning and maintenance occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Personal care and service occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Sales and office occupations (%)
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Most Common Occupations - Natural resources, construction, and maintenance occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Farming, fishing, and forestry occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Construction and extraction occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Installation, maintenance, and repair occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production, transportation, and material moving occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production occupations (%)
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People in Group quarters - Institutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - Correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Federal prisons and detention centers (%)
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People in Group quarters - Local jails and other confinement facilities (including police lockups) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military disciplinary barracks (%)
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People in Group quarters - Nursing homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
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People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
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People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
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People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)