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Old 05-03-2011, 01:34 PM
 
216 posts, read 618,277 times
Reputation: 88

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
^ I'm not so sure that ACT scores is a real good way to measure this. Maybe it is.

But if you look at that, MS, AL, LA have better schools than CO, MD, MA etc? Not so sure about that.

I'm no expert on this and don't claim to be. But back in MO it was like the kids were taught just to pass specific tests like the MAP test while out there, they seem to teach in a different way. It's less about how they will test and more about what they learn and how they can apply that to college level courses.

If your kids are doing too well out here, they assume the classes are not advanced enough and the child is not challenged and so they push your kids and doing so may actually reduce some scores and tests and grades, but the kids get more out of it.

You also have districts out here that are extremely large and diverse and still rank very high. It seems like in the Midwest if it's not an all white suburban district than it's not a good district. I think it's easy to get good act scores and state scores in districts with the top of the economic demographic and very little social issues, language and cultural barriers.

Look at Montgomery County, MD for example. So many different races and cultures and languages in a district that is both urban and suburban yet has 150,000 students.

That's like the entire MO side of KC all in one district. What they pull off is absolutely amazing. Overland Park and Lee's Summit should be easy compared to that.

Having said that I do think the schools in the suburban KC area are very good. I'm just very impressed with the schools out here, but that is from my very limited perspective.
Excellent that you are having good experiences "out there " KCMO, but teaching to " a test" is a legacy of NCLB and high stakes testing, not a quality unique to MO or any other state. All states have it. There are some OUTSTANDING suburban districts in the DC area, and you may be in one of those. I am certain you could find those within a 20 or 30 mile radius who are completely unhappy with their school experiences as well.

As the saying goes about politics, it is even more so with schools in the US: It is all local. Districts vary wildly within a state or region, individual schools within a district vary, and some teachers are great for one kid and can't do anything with another kid. I think it is terribly hard to make sweeping statements about education based on anecdotal experience or even stats like ACT, etc. You have mentioned that your wife is a teacher...so I know I am not telling you anything you don't already know.

Besides, you seem to be going through your "honeymoon phase" with DC. Everything they do is great. KC has turned into your bad ex. Can't get a thing right.

Excellent question about the stat aragx6 ... if we are only talking about students entering community college, that changes the numbers dramatically. Many of the better prepared students will already be attending 4 year institutions, so the pool of students drawn from as community college attendees are already a particular population. They may be on the fence about education or unable to get into a more competitive university. And please don't yell at me about that statement...I love the C. College system, I have taught at three different C. Colleges, and there are lots of great students and faculty there. But they serve a certain population ( on purpose!) and it is not surprising that more of the students in that subset need extra help once they make it to college.
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Old 05-03-2011, 03:34 PM
 
Location: Tower Grove East, St. Louis, MO
12,063 posts, read 31,485,827 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ykamom View Post
But they serve a certain population ( on purpose!) and it is not surprising that more of the students in that subset need extra help once they make it to college.
Exactly right. I hope my post didn't come across as snotty or in any way derisive of the community college system -- that definitely wasn't my intent. But one of the main purposes of a community college is to allow students who haven't had the college preparatory experience the ability to continue to pursue higher education. That doesn't mean LS schools or any other has necessarily failed these children -- there are so many variables.
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Old 05-03-2011, 03:44 PM
 
216 posts, read 618,277 times
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^^No, no snottiness detected at all! I think you are absolutely correct.
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Old 05-03-2011, 09:13 PM
 
Location: Middle America
37,409 posts, read 53,284,073 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ykamom View Post
Excellent that you are having good experiences "out there " KCMO, but teaching to " a test" is a legacy of NCLB and high stakes testing, not a quality unique to MO or any other state. All states have it. There are some OUTSTANDING suburban districts in the DC area, and you may be in one of those. I am certain you could find those within a 20 or 30 mile radius who are completely unhappy with their school experiences as well.
This ^^ . Teaching with most focus being given to standardized testing performance is NOT something that's specific to Missouri...it's endemic to public education nationwide thanks to poorly thought out federal mandates. Missouri as a state doesn't have a great track record with public education, as a whole (I'm in the process of switching certification from a state with a stellar reputation, in terms of academic excellence in public schools, so the contrast is quite vivid). But the teaching to the test dilemma is absolutely not a Missouri-centric thing, or a Midwest-centric thing...it's an NCLB thing.
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Old 05-04-2011, 08:30 AM
 
77,752 posts, read 59,900,878 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
Yea, I think that's the case with us. I think our kids would do well in just about any district, even a district like KCMO because they would excel in their own circle and take full advantage of what the district offers, even if they are only in about 3% of the students.

.........................

The only problem with that is you would have JoCo out there on a pedestal because its demographics are almost entirely middle to upper middle class suburban.
You might be shocked to learn that a gradeschool in my area smack in the middle of JOCO is going to be certified Title 1 (>50% of the students on financial assistance) this year.

There are blocks and blocks and blocks of apartments throughout JOCO packed full of young families with low incomes, largely hispanic, that enjoy the area for the quality of the public schools and a desire to get ahead.

I personally like this because I grew up in a school where my one buddy never had a real bed to sleep on his whole life and another kid in my class drove a new volvo to highschool. I appreciate the variety and lessons this teaches.
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:40 AM
 
Location: KC
396 posts, read 991,605 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa View Post
...it's an NCLB thing.
Bingo, I spend literally ALL of my planning on how to really teach my students while still "teaching" my students according to what NCLB thinks is teaching. I have a colleague who refers to NCLB as No Child Left Untested. 100% by 2014 here we come Although the standards are getting ready to change again, so we'll see if that will help with the issues at the national level tests that we have for the most part fixed at the classroom level. Looks like they may be more expeditionary learning supported, so maybe the fed decided to match the standards to a more truly educational approach. Regardless, true education is still alive in classrooms all across the country no matter what the government does. I have the pleasure of working with and knowing many amazing educators

Happy Teacher Appreciation Week!
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:45 AM
 
Location: KC
396 posts, read 991,605 times
Reputation: 413
Mathguy, I completely agree that students learn so much about real life in a truly diverse setting. Just because a school is in the city doesn't make it diverse, in fact that is seldom the case in similar ways to suburban schools lacking that diversity. It's the places in the middle that offer the most real world experiences. I was lucky to have that experience, and I'm better for it.
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:50 AM
 
216 posts, read 618,277 times
Reputation: 88
Regardless, true education is still alive in classrooms all across the country no matter what the government does. I have the pleasure of working with and knowing many amazing educators

Yes, happily I agree with you on this. It is incredible but despite all odds there is a certain type of person that enters and loves the teaching profession, in spite of all the efforts made to undermine the profession in the eyes of the public. There are always some great people doing wonderful things. That is why, as I said before, it is often about that particular teacher in that room with that student. You can dismiss the stats and test scores lots of times. If that mix is working, you are experiencing a "good school." For this reason, reviews and attitudes about schools vary wildly.
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Old 05-18-2011, 09:48 AM
 
Location: Lee's Summit, MO
58 posts, read 220,622 times
Reputation: 22
Default Here is the link to the information.

It's news to me (http://www.lsjournal.com/2011/03/24/64487/its-news-to-me.html - broken link)

A few interesting facts should also be noted from the forum.

Plaas said that 42 percent of R-7 graduates that attend local community colleges must take remedial mathematics and English.

Another was that board candidate Mike Smith has never been a school board meeting, a fact that Wiley chided him on.

“It is incumbent on a candidate to attend a board meeting when you file,” Wiley noted.

Candidate Terri Harmon was unable to stay past the first 15 minutes of the forum due to a family commitment.
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Old 05-18-2011, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Lee's Summit, MO
58 posts, read 220,622 times
Reputation: 22
Default Lee's Summit Has Dropped In Rankings

Lee's Summit R-7 School District: Lee's Summit District Ranking Has Dropped From 27th to 38th In Two Years
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