Stone Basements: Are they usable?

[slicey]

Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal

Take a good assessment of those homes you saw that had musty basements. Were the gutters clean? Did the land have a positive grade away from the house? Had the downspouts been diverted so they were not going into the original drain system? Did the homeowner have the dehumidifier running?

Every home I looked at had a musty basement. I don't know if I'm just particularly sensitive, if all stone basements are musty, or if it's just the ones I happened to look at. That's the purpose of me starting this thread - to try and determine what's typical and if this is something that I can live with.

Many of the homes I looked at were not currently being lived in, so no dehumidifiers were running. The gutters seemed clear, the downspouts that I noticed were all diverted. The slope away from the foundation differed by house. Most were flat, but could be graded to bring water away from the foundation. Some of these houses don't really have the room to build up the land around the foundation due to the proximity of the neighboring house, the driveway, the garage, etc.

[brewcrew1000]

A Dehumidifier will defintely help with musty smell.

[lifelongMOgal]

Originally Posted by slicey

Every home I looked at had a musty basement. I don't know if I'm just particularly sensitive, if all stone basements are musty, or if it's just the ones I happened to look at. That's the purpose of me starting this thread - to try and determine what's typical and if this is something that I can live with.

Many of the homes I looked at were not currently being lived in, so no dehumidifiers were running. The gutters seemed clear, the downspouts that I noticed were all diverted. The slope away from the foundation differed by house. Most were flat, but could be graded to bring water away from the foundation. Some of these houses don't really have the room to build up the land around the foundation due to the proximity of the neighboring house, the driveway, the garage, etc.

Ok, when you have a vacant house with a stone foundation and no air circulation it is going to get musty. This is something that can be greatly aleviated by a dehumidifier and air circulation along with a good cleaning of the basement as long as it isn't truly "wet". Improving the grading will help as well.

If you've been in a dozen or more of these homes you may have noticed that in some the stone foundation has been pained white, and in some it has not. Stone being a natural substance is porous and it breaths. Obviously, as wet as it has been the past week or so the soil on the other side of the stone is quite moist, thus your musty odor builds up, especially in an unoccupied home. Place you hand on an unpainted stone foundation and it will feel somewhat damp but not really wet. This is to be expected. The interior can be painted/waterproofed to help with this as well.

On rainy days like we've had this week, as long as water is not coming into the basement along the driveway side or front driveway corner, there really isn't much to be concerned about the flatter grade along the driveway side. If it is like my neighborhood, we only have 12-14 inches of grass between our non-driveway side and the neighbors drive, or just a few inches more than the window wells on that side.

I and others have done our best to ease your concerns based on our real life experience. However, if you are indeed overly sensitive then perhaps an older home with character is not the house for you; and, you may need to stick with the newer (and not as well built) construction to which you've become accustomed.

[RichMonk]

Originally Posted by shindig

Radon is blown way out of proportion if you ask me. It ONLY needs to be tested in an area where you spend a considerable amount of time (i.e. living room, bedroom). If you rarely go in your basement, it is not a big deal. That's what most people don't realize. If you have a finished basement, then yes, have it tested for Radon. If it's unfinished and you only go down there to do laundry or put away the xmas tree, then don't waste the time or $ to have one installed.

I'm not so sure about that. If you have a breezy basement, fine, no problems but if you have build up in your basement a few things can happen. First off, radon is considered highly radioactive whose progeny release alpha and beta particles. Radon exposure is the second leading cause of lung cancer in the US, UK and France. Even if you are just going down to the basement for occasional storage or laundry you track all that radon and its byproducts all over your home and family when you return (Radon exposure in homes was discovered after a nuclear plant worker carried it into work on his shoes).

There is also passive radiation which contributes to your overall background radiation levels. The beta radiation from other decay products can penetrate the skin causing medium ionizing and damage to skin cells. The alpha particles emitted are as light and free as Hydrogen but easily absorbed. Inhalation of alpha particles results in instant damage to chromosomes in lung cells.

Also, while Radon is gaseous, its byproducts aren't necessarily gaseous too. Radioactive Lead, Polonium and Mercury precipitate and collect on the basement floor or moves around as dust (this happens very quickly as radon has a half-life of 3.8 days). Radon will decay into Polonium-218 solid (highly radioactive), then Lead-214 (radioactive), then Bismuth-214 (safe-ish), then Polonium-214 (highly radioactive), and then Lead-210. That Lead isotope (over 22 years) then decays into Polonium-210 and finally settles on stable Lead. There are also Mercury byproducts. Leaving Radon in your basement increases the toxicity of the area over time, making it more dangerous the longer it isn't mitigated. So aside from radiological exposure you can increase your metal toxicity and you spread these heavy metals all around your home as you visit your basement from time to time. (also remember that metals build up in the body's organs increasing in toxicity with every exposure)

Really, my point is, we have a lot of sources of radiation and pollutants in the modern world and would be wise to reduce that amount we get in our homes. Our exposures today are much higher than pre-modern eras due to airplanes (flying above the protective atmosphere), x-rays, industrial materials and simply elevated radiation in the air from pollution.

The danger with Radon in homes is that it is never in high enough concentrations to cause radiation sickness, its presence elevates your potential to have lung cancer. Just get it tested, its cheap to do an at home kit. Luckily, in KC, the Radon levels aren't as high elsewhere as in the Appalachian mountains and the Ozarks.

The expensive mitigation techniques are one way to do it and forget about it but leaving a basement window open every few days for an hour or two would be an okay cheap alternative.

[ykamom]

I am so glad you said all this RichMonk, I completely agree but didn't have the info at my finger tips ( or the energy to dig it up! ) to provide such comprehensive info.

I lost a very dear friend recently, a healthy non-smoker who had lung cancer. I am not an alarmist, but if an environmental hazard can be successfully mitigated for under $1000 investment, I will make that effort for the safety of my family. I think most people would, if they know they need to do so.

[kcfoundationrepairman]

Stone Basement have many degrees of usefulness and troubles. Part of the character of old homes is the Stone foundation, plastered walls and hand cut trimwork. It is relatively easy to temperalily remove the odors but waterproofing and drainage work would help keep the problem under control. Typical repair cost of this type range from $5000 - $15,000 dallars.

[lunadog70]

Hello.
Two years have passed since the message I am threading..
I am curious if you went ahead on buying a home with a stone foundation, and how it served you so far, if so?
I just did a search on "stone foundation 1915 homes kcmo" and was directed to this forum.
What a cool resource.
I am looking at buying a home. As you described I am single, and looking for a home with character along with a neighborhood/community with personality.
I plan to look at a home built 1915 in Hyde Park this week. Knowing there are issues, just want to be prepared to ask the right questions about the stone basement, and foundation.
Thanks!

[WiseOwlSaysHoot]

I live in Hyde Park in a home with a stone foundation built in 1900. My basement stays dry. I just run a dehumidifier to help with the humidity. I think the key is to have proper drainage around the house.

From my experience, stone foundations seem to have less issues than concrete. Any house can have foundation problems, but it seems that the most common and worst issues are with poured concrete foundations in homes built in the 50s and 60s.

If you are concerned, you can always have a structural engineer check out the house during the inspection period.

Let me know if you have any other questions about Hyde Park or old homes.

[lunadog70]

Thank you.
I am planning on looking at the home Wednesday. I am going to be cautious as I do not have a lot of resources
to put into an older home. The home was built in 1915.
When I told a family member about this, they replied something to the effect of Hyde Park being a "high crime" area.
I was born, and raised in Kansas City. I have lived in different areas, and honestly I do not have a problem
with Hyde Park. Any area in KC can be subject to crime from my experience.
What are your thoughts on that considering you live there?
Appreciate the advice.

[WiseOwlSaysHoot]

Hyde Park is a fairly large area (especially if you include Old Hyde Park, along with North, Central, and South HP) and it can vary from block to block when it comes to the chances of crime and "feeling of security" - but on the whole, I don't think it is a "high crime" or dangerous area.

I've lived here 3.5 years and I've never had any issues and feel perfectly safe. There is some occasional crime - the mostly likely thing to affect the average person would be petty stuff like car break-ins that can happen anywhere.

I think it ultimately comes down to a personal level of comfort. It seems like you don't have a problem with it, so I wouldn't worry.