07-20-2011, 03:59 PM
132 posts, read
171,571 times
Reputation: 114
The downfall of KC's urban core has been several decades in the making, mostly by poor planning by city leaders which has forced big ticket items (airport being the largest and most idiotic) out into the suburbs. This has created new infrastructure problems such as the lack of viability of light rail just due to the distances required.
I am a pilot myself so the impact of MCI way up north has always befuddled me personally. In the late 60's the FAA did a survey of the most 'dangerous' airports in America. KMKC (Wheeler) topped the list primarily due to river fog which plagued early to mid century aviation as poor weather navigation and landing systems were in their infancy. Another concern was the proximity to 'the hill' but this really isn't a problem with modern aircraft climb rates and established traffic patterns.
So the cities' remedy of this was to use a large section of land up north and build a super-airport on it to hopefully please TWA. TWA was pleased for about 5 years until security in commercial aviation became a necessity. This security age took one of the best airports in the nation and made it one of the worst. Long gate-gate distances, only way to transit terminals is by bus. It truly is the worst modern commercial airport in use in the United States and the bottom line shows it. Post 9/11 the TSA allowed MCI to be operated by a private security contractor simply because it is the most expensive airport to operate on a per passenger basis in the nation hands down. Not only is it expensive but inconvenient to the point passengers and airlines intentionally avoid connections here. Airlines merely exist to serve the local O&D traffic (origin and destination) which isn't much.
Moving out into the boonies has other problems. It lures businesses that would otherwise be located in a city core (could you imagine having zona rosa on the riverfront?) and also causes some dangers for the airport itself. In 2009 MCI had the highest number of "wildlife" strikes of any airport in the U.S largely attributed to it's rural location. At 10,000 acres it is one of the larger airports in the nation and in turn has one of the highest grounds upkeep costs also.
With the advent of CAT III approach systems and 0/0 (zero miles viability, cloud ceiling at 0 feet) operations Wheeler now seems 'right sized' and in the perfect location to re-centralize the city. You may instantly claim that there is not enough room, the runways are too small and it will cost too much. However that simply isn't true. To the Southeast of the old terminal across 169/broadway there is adequate (and completely UNUSUED) room for a terminal to straddle 169/broadway with the gates on the west side, connected by enclosed pedestrian bridge or the existing underpasses to the street front and parking on the west side. The traffic to the airport would be handled by the heart of america bridge which already has an interchange into I-70/35.
Extending runway 1/19 to the north by 1,000ft or so is not just doable but realistic and makes the airport available to pretty much any commercial aircraft short of an A380 or 747 conducting a long range international flight which doesn't happen now and wont happen anytime in the foreseeable future. The airport already exists, the city already owns it and the modifications are inexpensive in relation to the operation costs of MCI. If the terminal were designed to modern security standards operating costs will be extremely low and southwest would probably see it as a viable hub.
Not to mention the 'charm' of arriving on your flight and seeing the skyline.
Let me know what you think, Just my .02c.
07-20-2011, 04:44 PM
1,830 posts, read
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Reputation: 534
There are many cities that have successfully revitalized the urban core with distant airports. See Denver and Minneapolis.
I think KC has been on the right path, at least with downtown. The core, especially downtown, is more functional now than it has been in 25 years. To continue to improve, KC needs to focus on developing more housing as a higher priority, not an urban airport. Businesses are important but I'd like to see pursuing residential growth as a higher priority.
I do agree that it was a mistake to build MCI so far away, but I don't think an urban airport is a major factor for revitalizing an urban core. Granted, it would be great if the old downtown airport could be used for commercial flights again, even if it's just smaller jets to regional cities and perhaps Denver/Chicago for connections. I'd use it if I'd have to make a connection from KCI anyway.
07-20-2011, 05:20 PM
3,004 posts, read
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Reputation: 1547
An urban airport probably wouldn't be beneficial as the land requirement would be massive. Urban Cores need a mixture of green space, affordable housing as well as local shopping ie a local grocery store as well as walkability in the immediate area and to the main business district downtown.
07-21-2011, 06:24 AM
Location: Old Hyde Park, Kansas City,MO
1,145 posts, read
2,464,676 times
Reputation: 593
Wheeler almost seems the size and similar layout as SAN (San Diego), not sure if SAN is bigger but it seems kind of tucked away, hills on one side, and a downtown on the other side
07-21-2011, 08:52 AM
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,164 posts, read
27,228,265 times
Reputation: 10428
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brewcrew1000
Wheeler almost seems the size and similar layout as SAN (San Diego), not sure if SAN is bigger but it seems kind of tucked away, hills on one side, and a downtown on the other side
I was thinking the same thing. The OP has an interesting idea... although it'll never happen.
07-21-2011, 09:40 AM
Location: Old Hyde Park, Kansas City,MO
1,145 posts, read
2,464,676 times
Reputation: 593
SAN also has water/bay on another side similar to Wheeler
I've always thought it would be great for an outside the box airline like Allegiant or Skybus (Even though they only lasted a year) to go into Wheeler
07-24-2011, 11:43 AM
132 posts, read
171,571 times
Reputation: 114
It would really be optimal for Southwest. They prefer non-primary airports because they don't codeshare and the other airline traffic is detrimental to their quick turn around times and schedules.
Chicago midway and San Diego are both smaller than Wheeler.
07-24-2011, 01:43 PM
Location: Washington, DC area
11,108 posts, read
23,888,805 times
Reputation: 6438
I work for the FAA and there is no way that the runways at MKC are long enough, nor have the safety cushions beyond them to support a major commercial airport. They already had to shorten the long runway at MKC to accommodate an arresting system (cushions at the end of the runway) or the FAA was threatning to withhold federal funding for the airport.
I thought at one time there was a proposal to expand MKC across the Missouri River into the Fairfax District. This idea was brought up before they decided to move to MCI (the old overall base). MCI was already there, the city just added the terminals and made it the main airport. That's why it's so far away. The site was not selected by the city as much as they had an airport they could use and went with that. TWA quickly learned that the terminal setup sucked and asked for a new terminal at MCI long ago. It's the main reason KC lost TWA's hub to St Louis.
Midway was grandfathered in and is a secondary airport to ORD and San Diego has a 9500 foot runway so it can accomodate large passenger jets and MKC (or Midway) can't. The FAA today wouldn't allow MCI existing runways to be used as a commercial airport when MKC has 3 long runways just 15 miles away.
We are way past any of this now though. The city really needs to just concentrate on building a new terminal at MCI and making MKC a fantastic urban business airport which I think the city has done, mostly with money redirected from the closing of Richards Gebaur (the FAA said the city could keep money that would have otherwise gone to improve RG in SKC).
MKC is an awesome airport now. Both runways have been rebuilt, it has a 24/7 tower, the terminal has been rebuilt and they have built a ton of new modern hangers and a new pilot's lounge with a restaurant etc.
It's too bad that so much of KC's corporate community is clear out in JoCo and therefore using the crappy JoCo exec airport instead of flying into one of the country’s most impressive commuter business airports and then being a five minute drive to a downtown office.
Last edited by kcmo; 07-24-2011 at 01:58 PM ..
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People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)