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Old 09-12-2011, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
10,705 posts, read 18,498,983 times
Reputation: 5415

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
Please explain how you got that out of what he said. He said nothing about JoCo, nothing about anyone affording anything, and nothing about resentment. Seriously, how the **** did you pull that crap out of what he said.

Uh, do you not pay attention? The city has been trying to get an NHL team for the last few years. However, the city really cannot do much if anything at all.

Cities do not own or obtain sports teams. So, the city cannot go for anything. Their power is limited. Sports teams are owned by billionaires and we dont have one willing to do it. Without an owner we will never be able to obtain a team. On top of that, the NBA and NHL are currently considering contraction rather than expansion so the only chance is relocation and that happens very rarely and when it does, there is stiff competition.

Can you ever post without mentioning Johnson County? The amount of college fans on each side of the state line is equal. When you cross into Johnson County there isnt this magical increase in college sports fans you like to claim.
Uhh, I already explained myself on the Kansas thing. He is the one that brought Kansas vs KCMO into the thread and I'm going to assume JoCo. But if he's from Salina, I stand corrected.

"Cities do not own or obtain sports teams". Great. I'm not 12, I understand that. I was metaphorically speaking of KC as a place in general, not the freaking government of KCMO. The people of KC (metro KC) should "support the idea" of bringing a major league team to downtown KC. Does that help at all???

JoCo and Kansas in general is more into college sports than the MO side and Missouri in general. Don't pretend it's not. I would bet one out of every 5 kansas cars has a college decal or emblem of some sort on it somewhere. It's probably one out of 20-50 missouri cars. Out here in DC it's probably one in 500-1000. Also, with 20 years of working in KC (both sides of the state line), the KS side residents were always at least 2-1 more into college sports. I understand that is not a scientific study, but it reflects the reality of population's interest.

A much higher percentage of residents of KS are into college sports than Missouri. Kansas is more like a Nebraska or Alabama while Missouri is more like a Colorado or Maryland. Missouri (or Maryland) has plenty of fans and they will show up in droves at games or watch on TV, but the overall percentage of the population that considers college sports their primary and most important sports entertainment is much lower and it's even more pronounced in St Louis than the MO side of Kansas City. I lived in StL for several years and they almost don't care about college sports compared to KC. But with nearly 3 million people, they have plenty that do. In KS, the entire state is about the same population as St Louis (or less) and there are probably more die hard college fans, a lot more.

I would say that most of MO is like Colorado. People go to the games, follow CU, pull for them, but it's really on the back burner for 99% of the population and even those that do care, don't care 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, like I have seen quite regulary in Kansas. People don't wear CU stuff every single place they go. If they wear sports stuff at all, it's generally pro, much like St Louis and out here in DC. They have the broncos to pull for, the Rockies, or they just don't care at all and are out skiing or mountain biking. What else is there to do in KS or NE or AL besides think about the colleges?

I'm sure you are not understanding this at all so I will stop.

Last edited by kcmo; 09-12-2011 at 12:33 PM..
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Old 09-12-2011, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Tower Grove East, St. Louis, MO
12,064 posts, read 27,212,345 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MUTGR View Post
I wouldn't be so sure about that. IF the big 12 disbands and IF MU winds up a different conference, I'm not sure you can count on the two schools playing. If, for example, MU winds up in the SEC, which I still think is doubtful, they will only have a few nonconference games and I promise you that Gary Pinkel and Mike Alden will fill those games with non-BCS conference schools, like Miami of Ohio and the like.
I see the thinking, and I wouldn't blame MU leadership for wanting to go in the non-BCS direction, but money speaks louder than words, and that KU/MU game brings in hella dough.
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Old 09-12-2011, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
5,758 posts, read 9,489,324 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
"Cities do not own or obtain sports teams". Great. I'm not 12, I understand that. I was metaphorically speaking of KC as a place in general, not the freaking government of KCMO. The people of KC (metro KC) should "support the idea" of bringing a major league team to downtown KC. Does that help at all???
They do support the idea or they area would have never passed when voted on. Where do you get that people do not support the idea? I have never seen a single person say that, ever.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
JoCo and Kansas in general is more into college sports than the MO side and Missouri in general. Don't pretend it's not. I would bet one out of every 5 kansas cars has a college decal or emblem of some sort on it somewhere. It's probably one out of 20-50 missouri cars. Out here in DC it's probably one in 500-1000. Also, with 20 years of working in KC (both sides of the state line), the KS side residents were always at least 2-1 more into college sports. I understand that is not a scientific study, but it reflects the reality of population's interest.

I would love for you to produce some statistics to back this up. 1 in 5 cars in Kansas have a college emblem? You cant be serious. Talk about exagerration. You sound like my kids who always want to make things more dramatic than they are. 1 in 5 cars do not have a college decal on them.

No, I dont think there is much different, if any difference in the level of interest in college sports between the people of the Kansas City area on both sides of the state line. Do you really think an imaginary line would magically make people more or less interested? We are all members of the same metropolitan area with the same history and culture of college sports. Crossing some imaginary border isnt going to suddenly jack up interest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
A much higher percentage of residents of KS are into college sports than Missouri. Kansas is more like a Nebraska or Alabama while Missouri is more like a Colorado or Maryland. Missouri (or Maryland) has plenty of fans and they will show up in droves at games or watch on TV, but the overall percentage of the population that considers college sports their primary and most important sports entertainment is much lower and it's even more pronounced in St Louis than the MO side of Kansas City. I lived in StL for several years and they almost don't care about college sports compared to KC. But with nearly 3 million people, they have plenty that do. In KS, the entire state is about the same population as St Louis (or less) and there are probably more die hard college fans, a lot more.

I would say that most of MO is like Colorado. People go to the games, follow CU, pull for them, but it's really on the back burner for 99% of the population and even those that do care, don't care 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, like I have seen quite regulary in Kansas. People don't wear CU stuff every single place they go. If they wear sports stuff at all, it's generally pro, much like St Louis and out here in DC. They have the broncos to pull for, the Rockies, or they just don't care at all and are out skiing or mountain biking. What else is there to do in KS or NE or AL besides think about the colleges?

You love to jump ship in an attempt to prove your point. You go from discussing the Big 12 to pro sports and now from discussing the KC area to discussing entire states. What's next?

We are discussing the KC area. Not the state of Missouri or state of Kansas. The interest of the entire state of Kansas or Missouri is not relevant to this discussion.
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Old 09-12-2011, 05:17 PM
 
886 posts, read 1,860,576 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
You mean to tell me you don't like college sports and would prefer pro level sports? This is not possible. You must just hate KU. There are no potential NHL or NBA fans in KC. You would be the only one that would show up!

Seriously, I agree, Sporting seems to be nice alternative to the decades of losing by the Chiefs and Royals, but don't get all silly on me and wish the Chiefs and Royals away (not that you do). I'll say this as an NHL fan and as somebody that thinks the NBA would be great for KC.

I would take the losing Chiefs or Royals over a winning NHL or NBA team. The NFL and MLB are by far and large the top two leagues and the most important for KC's economy (chiefs and royals bring way more tourism and exposure to KC than NHL or NBA ever would), regardless of their records and who's to say that an NHL or NBA team won't suck too. KC doens't have a good track record of winning sports teams.

Like I said, I'm not saying you said that, but I hear it often. People wish the Royals or Chiefs would leave so KC can get NHL or something. Bad idea. Just like I support the NCAA events in KC even though I had no interest in the events myself.

Having said all that. An NHL team in KC would be awesome. I would give up my caps jersey and get a kc jersey in a heartbeat.
Yeah I'm not wishing them away... i just don't personally care to watch them.... and I realize MLB and NFL are the major sports... just not my cup of tea ya know....
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Old 09-12-2011, 08:58 PM
 
400 posts, read 843,366 times
Reputation: 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by cubssoxfan
If the Big12 breaks up, what conferences would you like to see the remaining teams join? why?
Or would you like to see the remaining Big 8 teams form their own conference with some new additions? If so, who?
I am a B1G10 fan, but could care less about adding teams east of Happy Valley. I have a fondness for the Big 8 and SWC from watching the rivalry games ABC would show every year.
Without any doubt, I would like for KU to join the Big 10. It would be nice if KU, MU, Iowa State, and Kansas State could all join the Big 10, forming a 16-team Midwestern super-conference (maybe spliting into a western division and eastern division, I would love to see a western division of KU, K-State, Missouri, Nebraska, Iowa State, Iowa, Minnesota, and Wisconsin). BUT, the Big 10 does not want to expand right now, and they might not have interest in those schools.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo
I'm going to assume JoCo. But if he's from Salina, I stand corrected.
I'm from Iowa.

Here's what I gather from your comments. You think that:

1. KC is a college basketball town, but pro sports is more important.

2. MO side not into college sports as much as KS side.

3. You personally have no interest in college sports, but claim that it has nothing to do with KU or MU.

4. Pro sports is just better than college sports.

It doesn't surprise me that as a MO-sider, you are not interested in college sports. Mizzou is like 120 miles away from KC. The only sport that they have that would pique anyone's interest is football, and they have not been consistently good in that sport (never won a national championship in football, unlike nearby schools like Nebraska, Oklahoma, and Colorado, which have). Mizzou men's basketball has not been successful at all, especially compared to other nearby schools. Mizzou has never been to a single Final Four. Even Wichita State and Drake have been to a Final Four, but not Mizzou.

In contrast, KU has been to 13 Final Fours and won 3 national championships in men's basketball, including one in KC itself in 1988.

So it doesn't surprise me at all that you would not care about college sports, because Mizzou doesn't have much going for it that would pique your interest as a fan. The two main sports in college are football and men's basketball. Those are the only two college sports that really compete on a spectator level with the pro sports, NBA, NHL, MLB, and NFL. College baseball, women's college basketball, wrestling, and volleyball are interesting sports, but don't have the draw that college football and college men's basketball have.

So when you look at Mizzou, they have ZERO national championships in college football and men's college basketball. I'm not saying this to disparage Mizzou, I'm just stating a fact. Schools that have a tradition of winning championships have a better following, more fan interest, and compete on a spectator level with pro sports teams. Schools like Mizzou whose main sports have never won a national championship do not sustain that level of fan interest.

Your points #2, 3, and 4 are easily summed up by this historical record. MO side is not into college sports as much as KS side, you personally (as a MO-sider born and bred) have no interest in college sports, and finally your irritating contention that pro sports is just "better" than college sports, are all easily explained by Mizzou's lack of success in any major college sports and the distance between KC and Columbia.

ON THE OTHER HAND, for those KC residents who are fans of KU athletic programs, they actually have something to sustain their interest as fans. The KU men's basketball program, as I stated earlier, has won 3 national championships (actually 5 if you count retroactively-awarded titles from the 1920s). I personally believe that KU is the most tradition-rich basketball team in the world. I say that because among other things, the KU men's basketball program was founded by James Naismith in 1898, just 7 years after Naismith invented the game of basketball; KU is second all-time in wins among all college teams (only 20 wins behind Kentucky); the two men who built the other tradition-rich basketball programs at Kentucky and North Carolina (Adolph Rupp and Dean Smith) were themselves Kansas boys who played at KU; KU's second coach, Phog Allen, created the NCAA tournament (one of the most exciting sports events in America); and because of the sustained success of KU from the 1890s through the 1920s, 1950s, 1980s, 1990s, and 2000s.

In short, when you study the sport of basketball, not just college basketball, but all forms of basketball, NBA, NCAA, Globetrotters, YMCA, the KU men's basketball program has the best combination of history, tradition, and success of any basketball team in the world. And we can say the world, because basketball is an American sport. It started here, and it started at KU by the inventor of the game, just 7 years after he invented the game. The only basketball teams that were created prior to KU were some YMCA teams and some college teams that have not had the type of success that KU has had over the years.

So...sorry to bore you with that history lesson, but it is important to understanding this whole college sports thing in KC. When you are talking about that kind of tradition, you should be able to understand why KU fans are passionate about KU sports. I'm sorry that you don't have that connection to KU basketball, because you grew up with Mizzou, and Mizzou doesn't have anything like what KU has with its basketball program, so it left you uninterested in college sports. But for those KC area residents who are KU fans or who appreciate and understand the history of KU basketball, I don't think they put it as far below pro sports as you do or as you think they do.

The Royals have a fine tradition, having won a World Series in 1985. The Chiefs also have a fine tradition, with a Super Bowl ring from 1969. But the KU men's basketball team has won 2 national championships (1988 and 2008) in the time since either the Royals or the Chiefs has won a national championship in their respective sports. So they are all very much on the same level. Even though KU is college, their basketball program is on a level that is comparable to pro teams. I would say that the three main sports teams in the KC area are the Royals, Chiefs, and KU basketball. And for those who are really into KU basketball, they follow it very much like a fan would follow a pro team.

KU is a team for all of KC. It's not a Kansas thing exclusively. It should be embraced by both sides of the state line. And I think it is, but is still more popular in KS. And I do really think that there are people like yourself, who just do not like rooting for a Kansas team, particularly one representing the University OF Kansas. That's why I said that certain MO-siders resent the college sports culture in KC. Because the main college sport in KC is KU basketball, and certain MO-siders don't like that because they represent Mizzou.

Someone like yourself, you probably would be a KU basketball fan if it wasn't for the state line issues that you have. The second most exciting thing to happen in KC sports history in the last 30 years was KU men's basketball winning the national championship at Kemper Arena in 1988 (second only to the Royals winning the 1985 World Series). That was a great event for the entire region, not just KU.
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Old 09-12-2011, 09:07 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
10,705 posts, read 18,498,983 times
Reputation: 5415
I agree with most of what you say except that I did not grow up with MIZZOU and really could not care less if they won none or 50 championships. I would take one single Royals playoff loss to 100 mizzou championships.

Are you getting my point here???

I respect KU as a great school and an important part of KC's culture. I never said otherwise.

My only point was that KC is over 2 million people. The city has a diverse population that has interests in things other than college sports.
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Old 09-12-2011, 11:10 PM
 
400 posts, read 843,366 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
I agree with most of what you say except that I did not grow up with MIZZOU and really could not care less if they won none or 50 championships. I would take one single Royals playoff loss to 100 mizzou championships.

Are you getting my point here???

I respect KU as a great school and an important part of KC's culture. I never said otherwise.

My only point was that KC is over 2 million people. The city has a diverse population that has interests in things other than college sports.
Are you getting my point here? Doesn't look like it. I typed all that out so that you could see that maybe the reason you didn't "grow up with Mizzou" is because their teams historically have accomplished very little that would filter down to casual fans in KC to make them interested in heavily following Mizzou. No major national championships. That was my point.

In contrast, KU men's basketball has been winning national championships since the 1920s. Therefore, KU fans in the KC area have more to be excited about. You just don't seem to get this. You think it's just "natural" that the BIG CITY KCMO doesn't go for college sports because it's "less-than", when in fact maybe it's just because your team sucks and has sucked for so long that people stopped caring.

I want to show everyone how disingenuous you are and how you argue in bad faith. I will post a comment that you made just 9 days ago on this very site. This is what you said in the City vs. City forum when discussing the merits of Kansas City vs. another large American city:

Quote:
Colleges/Univ.: KC. Lawrence is not technically part of the KC MSA or even CMSA, but it's only 30 minutes from KC and is a huge part of KC's culture. I hate KU (MIZZOU guy), but KU is very much a KC university. KC also has UMKC, KC Art Institute and several other colleges in the city itself.
Let me quote that again:

Quote:
I hate KU (MIZZOU guy)
That's you.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/20733357-post8.html

Anyone can click the link to see the comment for themselves. This was nine freaking days ago.

You not only stated that you HATE KU, but you called yourself a MIZZOU guy. Now here you are acting like you don't care about Mizzou and you "respect" KU. That is total bull. Your attitude is PRECISELY what I described in my post: MO-siders who resent the college sports culture in KC because the main college sport in KC is KU basketball, and they don't like KU. This is the attitude of thousands of people like yourself, people who should be holding up KU basketball as one of the premier athletic programs in the region, but who instead hold these grudges against KU and Kansas.
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Old 09-14-2011, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Lake Arlington Heights, IL
5,481 posts, read 10,057,369 times
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Quote:
Without any doubt, I would like for KU to join the Big 10. It would be nice if KU, MU, Iowa State, and Kansas State could all join the Big 10, forming a 16-team Midwestern super-conference (maybe spliting into a western division and eastern division, I would love to see a western division of KU, K-State, Missouri, Nebraska, Iowa State, Iowa, Minnesota, and Wisconsin). BUT, the Big 10 does not want to expand right now, and they might not have interest in those schools.
Bluearth, thanks for answering my question. That is close to the Big 8 except for Colorado, OK and OK State instead of IA, MN & WI-right?
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Old 09-14-2011, 03:11 PM
 
29,988 posts, read 35,855,551 times
Reputation: 12719
Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
You cannot be serious. The NBA is complete and utter trash. We dont need that garbage in our city. I am a huge sports fan and I mainly hang out with other sports fans and I do not know a single person that follows that trash. College basketball is by far the superior sport and this is a college basketball town. An NBA team would have a hard time competing against the Jayhawks for fans and media attention.

Kansas City is easily one of the biggest college sports cities in the country, especially when it comes to college basketball. We have hosted more Final Fours than any other city in the country. It is a part of who we are and the Big 12 is the backbone of it.

The Big 12 falling apart will be absolutely horrible for Kansas City. Rooting for the Big 12 to dismantle is foolish whether you are a sports fan or not. The amount of exposure and revenue generated by Big 12 events and the culture it builds is priceless.
Agreed!
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Old 09-15-2011, 11:30 AM
 
400 posts, read 843,366 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cubssoxfan View Post
Bluearth, thanks for answering my question. That is close to the Big 8 except for Colorado, OK and OK State instead of IA, MN & WI-right?
Yes, I guess it is. I can dream that this would happen, but I don't know if it is realistic. The Big Ten wants to admit strong academic institutions that are members of the elite Association of American Universities (AAU), while also having strong football programs. Currently, 11 of the 12 Big Ten members are AAU members. Nebraska is the only one that isn't AAU, but they were AAU when they were admitted.

Kansas, Missouri, and Iowa State are all AAU members currently, so they fit academically with the Big Ten's standards. However, Kansas and Iowa State don't have strong football programs. Kansas might be considered due to its strong basketball program.

The odd-man-out seems to be K-State, which is not an AAU member. Iowa State is also probably on the outside looking in, because their football and basketball programs aren't very strong. Ultimately, I could see a scenario where the Big Ten admits Kansas and Missouri, but not K-State and Iowa State. Not sure if Kansas would go without K-State, but I think they probably would so long as it's not prohibited by the Board of Regents or the legislature.

If the Big 12 does split up, the Big Ten makes the most sense geographically for Kansas, Missouri, K-State, and Iowa State. Travel times would be better, half of the schools would be in the Central Time Zone. Culturally, the conference would fit together because it would remain centered on the Midwest. The proposals for Kansas to the Big East or ACC don't make any sense to me. Geographically, culturally, it makes no sense. The Pac 12 would be horrendous for travel.
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