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Old 12-22-2011, 02:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DogtownBnR View Post
I see a few people bashing STL and referring to it as a drain to MO and an economically declining city. Not so fast! Regarding the State of MO, STL is a major economic driver. STL accounts for 40% of the State's GDP, is home to the headquarters for 21 Fortune 1000 companies, eight of which are in the Fortune 500. Something many overlook is the fact that St. Louis is home 7 companies on the Forbes largest private companies list.
Also, large companies have major operations in STL, Mastercard, Boeing, GM. KC has some big companies, but unfortunately for MO, 3 of the F500 companies are in KS. I know Ford is big in KC as well.
.
Agree with most everything but STL's Fortune 1000 companies don't seem to impact the GMP much as STL's metro per cap GMP is one of lowest in US, KC. KC (metro) has higher per cap GMP despite few large companies based in KC - there are many large companies that have offices/divisions in KC and then there are a lot of tech companies. And though it's split across the state line and the KS side has 3 large HQs, the MO side GMP carries more weight for KC metro than the KS side. Seems HQs don't have a proportional relationship to GMP.

STL comes from an old economy biz culture, doing OK with converting manufacturing jobs lost to service industry jobs. But manufacturing holds much higher GMP than service industry. KC is more of a new economy city that is doing a better job holding onto the manufacturing that it has, so helps improve the overall GMP. KC has a lot of smaller entrepreneurial companies/tech companies that generate high income, so KC metro has overall higher per cap income as well and is a slightly better educated. Granted, a good chunk is on KS side, but I'm speaking metro as a whole.

Anyway, I agree with you on all other counts but just pointing out HQ's don't equate to high GMP.

Source on GMP..
Metro GMP, a measure of economy - KC does pretty well
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Old 12-28-2011, 01:24 PM
 
Location: South St. Louis City
111 posts, read 160,629 times
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Some stats from http://www.usmayors.org/metroeconomies/2011/report.pdf


Table 1: Gross Metropolitan Product of U.S. Metro Areas
Rank 2010 2007 2008 2009 2010
1 New York-Northern New Jersey-Long Island, NY- 1,215.9 1,242.1 1,217.4 1,282.6
2 Los Angeles-Long Beach-Santa Ana, CA 731.6 747.0 716.4 737.9
]3 Chicago-Joliet-Naperville, IL-IN-WI 522.1 525.3 517.3 531.4
4 Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VAMD-WV 384.3 400.0 409.6 426.1
5 Houston-Sugar Land-Baytown, TX 373.3 396.5 364.9 378.9
6 Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington, TX 358.1 370.8 358.3 376.8
7 Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD 325.3 332.0 335.7 347.7
8 San Francisco-Oakland-Fremont, CA 321.2 336.5 328.9 337.4
9 Boston-Cambridge-Quincy, MA-NH 290.8 300.4 296.9 311.3
10 Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Marietta, GA 271.9 274.2 265.2 270.6
11 Miami-Fort Lauderdale-Pompano Beach, FL 264.3 260.5 253.8 258.8
12 Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue, WA 220.9 227.9 225.6 231.4
13 Minneapolis-St. Paul-Bloomington, MN-WI 189.2 193.4 190.5 198.3
14 Detroit-Warren-Livonia, MI 204.3 196.8 190.2 196.3
15 Phoenix-Mesa-Glendale, AZ 196.4 196.0 187.4 190.6
16 San Diego-Carlsbad-San Marcos, CA 166.4 171.2 168.1 172.7
17 Denver-Aurora-Broomfield, CO 147.1 154.3 152.7 157.1
18 San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA 148.6 150.8 144.4 151.6
19 Baltimore-Towson, MD 134.0 137.6 139.1 144.4
20 St. Louis, MO-IL 123.8 129.1 125.4 128.7
21 Portland-Vancouver-Hillsboro, OR-WA 116.8 122.4 118.2 122.8
22 Charlotte-Gastonia-Rock Hill, NC-SC 111.2 113.4 112.5 117.3
23 Pittsburgh, PA 108.2 111.5 111.3 115.6
24 Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater, FL 114.1 112.6 111.9 113.9
25 Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario, CA 114.8 112.9 108.4 110.8
26 Kansas City, MO-KS 101.2 103.9 103.1 105.6

Table 7: Gross Metropolitan Product as a Share of Gross State
(US$, Billions)

Missouri
2010 GMP % of GSP
Columbia, MO $6.92 2.8
Fayetteville-Springdale-Rogers, AR-MO $0.44 0.2
Jefferson City, MO $5.98 2.5
Joplin, MO $5.63 2.3
Kansas City, MO-KS $58.44 24.0
Springfield, MO $14.86 6.1
St. Louis, MO-IL $108.14 44.3
Sum of Metro Areas

Table 8: Real GMP and Employment Growth Rates, 2010 and 2011
Rank 2010 2011 2010 2011
1 New York-Northern New Jersey-Long Island, NY-NJ-PA -0.2 0.9 4.2 2.8
2 Los Angeles-Long Beach-Santa Ana, CA -1.4 1.0 2.4 2.1
3 Chicago-Joliet-Naperville, IL-IN-WI -1.0 1.3 1.6 2.0[/SIZE][/LEFT]
4 Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV 0.4 1.4 2.9 2.7[/SIZE][/LEFT]
5 Houston-Sugar Land-Baytown, TX -0.2 2.0 7.1 2.8[/SIZE][/LEFT]
6 Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington, TX 0.0 2.7 4.7 4.0[/SIZE][/LEFT]
7 San Francisco-Oakland-Fremont, CA -1.6 0.3 1.7 1.2[/SIZE][/LEFT]
8 Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD -0.5 0.8 2.5 1.9[/SIZE][/LEFT]
9 Boston-Cambridge-Quincy, MA-NH 0.2 1.0 3.8 2.9[/SIZE][/LEFT]
10 Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Marietta, GA -1.3 0.1 1.2 1.8[/SIZE][/LEFT]
11 Miami-Fort Lauderdale-Pompano Beach, FL -0.9 1.1 1.3 2.0
12 Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue, WA -1.8 1.9 1.5 2.7
13 Minneapolis-St. Paul-Bloomington, MN-WI -0.9 1.0 3.1 2.7
14 Detroit-Warren-Livonia, MI -0.6 1.0 2.3 1.8
15 Phoenix-Mesa-Glendale, AZ -2.1 1.2 0.9 2.1
16 San Diego-Carlsbad-San Marcos, CA -0.9 1.4 1.8 2.2
17 San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA -0.4 2.2 3.6 3.7
18 Denver-Aurora-Broomfield, CO -0.8 1.8 2.8 2.6
19 Baltimore-Towson, MD -0.3 0.8 2.8 2.2
20 Portland-Vancouver-Hillsboro, OR-WA -0.8 1.5 3.4 3.3
21 St. Louis, MO-IL -0.6 1.3 1.6 2.3
22 Charlotte-Gastonia-Rock Hill, NC-SC -1.1 1.2 3.3 2.6
23 Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater, FL -1.5 0.7 1.0 1.9
24 Pittsburgh, PA 0.3 1.6 2.7 2.4
25 Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario, CA -2.1 0.0 1.2 1.2
26 Kansas City, MO-KS -1.6 0.4 1.6 1.8

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Old 12-28-2011, 02:26 PM
 
348 posts, read 477,402 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DogtownBnR View Post

Table 7: Gross Metropolitan Product as a Share of Gross State
(US$, Billions)

Missouri
2010 GMP % of GSP
Columbia, MO $6.92 2.8
Fayetteville-Springdale-Rogers, AR-MO $0.44 0.2
Jefferson City, MO $5.98 2.5
Joplin, MO $5.63 2.3
Kansas City, MO-KS $58.44 24.0
Springfield, MO $14.86 6.1
St. Louis, MO-IL $108.14 44.3
Sum of Metro Areas

Interesting on the percent of load.

I had a frat brother in undergrad from Blue Springs who always swore up and down that KC carried the state economically, that never sounded right to me. It is obvious though that the 2 biggest metros carry the load. The St. Louis number is just bigger than I thought. Looks like the Kansas side GDP carry metro KC because the overall between metro areas is nowhere near that large of a gap.


The Milken Report is out again this year, St. Louis Fell from 44 best performing economy to 90. KC drops from 60 to 137, Milken concentrates on tech economy, so is the tech economy stalling in KC?


2011 Best-Performing Cities - 200 Largest Metros
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Old 12-28-2011, 02:31 PM
 
Location: South St. Louis City
111 posts, read 160,629 times
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I guess that is not as big a concern, considering STL & KC are not huge tech cities at this time.
Of course you'd love to be high on the list, but it is not a surprise that both STL and KC are not.

PS_ I would assume you are correct on KS carrying the load. That is quite a difference for MO. only. So, when comparing the metros, KC must include KS and MO must include IL in the numbers.
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Old 12-28-2011, 06:35 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
10,705 posts, read 18,498,983 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DogtownBnR View Post
Some stats from http://www.usmayors.org/metroeconomies/2011/report.pdf


Table 1: Gross Metropolitan Product of U.S. Metro Areas
Rank 2010 2007 2008 2009 2010
1 New York-Northern New Jersey-Long Island, NY- 1,215.9 1,242.1 1,217.4 1,282.6
2 Los Angeles-Long Beach-Santa Ana, CA 731.6 747.0 716.4 737.9
]3 Chicago-Joliet-Naperville, IL-IN-WI 522.1 525.3 517.3 531.4
4 Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VAMD-WV 384.3 400.0 409.6 426.1
5 Houston-Sugar Land-Baytown, TX 373.3 396.5 364.9 378.9
6 Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington, TX 358.1 370.8 358.3 376.8
7 Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD 325.3 332.0 335.7 347.7
8 San Francisco-Oakland-Fremont, CA 321.2 336.5 328.9 337.4
9 Boston-Cambridge-Quincy, MA-NH 290.8 300.4 296.9 311.3
10 Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Marietta, GA 271.9 274.2 265.2 270.6
11 Miami-Fort Lauderdale-Pompano Beach, FL 264.3 260.5 253.8 258.8
12 Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue, WA 220.9 227.9 225.6 231.4
13 Minneapolis-St. Paul-Bloomington, MN-WI 189.2 193.4 190.5 198.3
14 Detroit-Warren-Livonia, MI 204.3 196.8 190.2 196.3
15 Phoenix-Mesa-Glendale, AZ 196.4 196.0 187.4 190.6
16 San Diego-Carlsbad-San Marcos, CA 166.4 171.2 168.1 172.7
17 Denver-Aurora-Broomfield, CO 147.1 154.3 152.7 157.1
18 San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA 148.6 150.8 144.4 151.6
19 Baltimore-Towson, MD 134.0 137.6 139.1 144.4
20 St. Louis, MO-IL 123.8 129.1 125.4 128.7
21 Portland-Vancouver-Hillsboro, OR-WA 116.8 122.4 118.2 122.8
22 Charlotte-Gastonia-Rock Hill, NC-SC 111.2 113.4 112.5 117.3
23 Pittsburgh, PA 108.2 111.5 111.3 115.6
24 Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater, FL 114.1 112.6 111.9 113.9
25 Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario, CA 114.8 112.9 108.4 110.8
26 Kansas City, MO-KS 101.2 103.9 103.1 105.6

Table 7: Gross Metropolitan Product as a Share of Gross State
(US$, Billions)

Missouri
2010 GMP % of GSP
Columbia, MO $6.92 2.8
Fayetteville-Springdale-Rogers, AR-MO $0.44 0.2
Jefferson City, MO $5.98 2.5
Joplin, MO $5.63 2.3
Kansas City, MO-KS $58.44 24.0
Springfield, MO $14.86 6.1
St. Louis, MO-IL $108.14 44.3
Sum of Metro Areas

Table 8: Real GMP and Employment Growth Rates, 2010 and 2011
Rank 2010 2011 2010 2011
1 New York-Northern New Jersey-Long Island, NY-NJ-PA -0.2 0.9 4.2 2.8
2 Los Angeles-Long Beach-Santa Ana, CA -1.4 1.0 2.4 2.1
3 Chicago-Joliet-Naperville, IL-IN-WI -1.0 1.3 1.6 2.0[/SIZE][/LEFT]
4 Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV 0.4 1.4 2.9 2.7[/SIZE][/LEFT]
5 Houston-Sugar Land-Baytown, TX -0.2 2.0 7.1 2.8[/SIZE][/LEFT]
6 Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington, TX 0.0 2.7 4.7 4.0[/SIZE][/LEFT]
7 San Francisco-Oakland-Fremont, CA -1.6 0.3 1.7 1.2[/SIZE][/LEFT]
8 Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD -0.5 0.8 2.5 1.9[/SIZE][/LEFT]
9 Boston-Cambridge-Quincy, MA-NH 0.2 1.0 3.8 2.9[/SIZE][/LEFT]
10 Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Marietta, GA -1.3 0.1 1.2 1.8[/SIZE][/LEFT]
11 Miami-Fort Lauderdale-Pompano Beach, FL -0.9 1.1 1.3 2.0
12 Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue, WA -1.8 1.9 1.5 2.7
13 Minneapolis-St. Paul-Bloomington, MN-WI -0.9 1.0 3.1 2.7
14 Detroit-Warren-Livonia, MI -0.6 1.0 2.3 1.8
15 Phoenix-Mesa-Glendale, AZ -2.1 1.2 0.9 2.1
16 San Diego-Carlsbad-San Marcos, CA -0.9 1.4 1.8 2.2
17 San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA -0.4 2.2 3.6 3.7
18 Denver-Aurora-Broomfield, CO -0.8 1.8 2.8 2.6
19 Baltimore-Towson, MD -0.3 0.8 2.8 2.2
20 Portland-Vancouver-Hillsboro, OR-WA -0.8 1.5 3.4 3.3
21 St. Louis, MO-IL -0.6 1.3 1.6 2.3
22 Charlotte-Gastonia-Rock Hill, NC-SC -1.1 1.2 3.3 2.6
23 Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater, FL -1.5 0.7 1.0 1.9
24 Pittsburgh, PA 0.3 1.6 2.7 2.4
25 Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario, CA -2.1 0.0 1.2 1.2
26 Kansas City, MO-KS -1.6 0.4 1.6 1.8
These stats sort of make KC look better than StL if you ask me.

StL ranks 20th for gross metro product but the metro is 18th largest while KC ranks 26th for gross metro project but the metro is like 29th largest.

MO side of StL is about twice the size of MO side of KC but the MO economic percent of StL is not twice that of KC.

Seems like KC does well for its size while StL is a bit of a slacker
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Old 12-29-2011, 07:29 AM
 
Location: South St. Louis City
111 posts, read 160,629 times
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I agree, KC does well for it's size. KC seems to have broad economy. The biggest issue is that a lot of it is on the KS side, which does not help Missouri.

Another thing to remember is that STL has been hit extremely hard by the recession, on the manufacturing side most notibly. We've lost a large Chrysler plant, a large Ford plant, amongst others. One thing to reiterate, is the fact that STL is morphing into more of a service economy. STL is a major financial, healthcare and service hub. Growing companies in STL like Express Scripts and old bohemoths like Emerson, Monsanto and Peabody still employ a ton of people. I know the recession has significantly impacted STL, no doubt. Unfortunately, those auto manufacturing jobs from Ford and Chrysler are never coming back. On a positive note, the GM plant is expanding and adding tons of new jobs.
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Old 12-29-2011, 01:54 PM
 
348 posts, read 477,402 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
MO side of StL is about twice the size of MO side of KC but the MO economic percent of StL is not twice that of KC.

Seems like KC does well for its size while StL is a bit of a slacker
Core county population - Platte, Clay, Jackson, Cass- 1,089,946

divided by

Core county population - St. Charles, StL City, StL Co, Jeff Co. 1,897,466

= 57%

GMP in billions - KC metro - 58.44

divided by

GMP in billions - STL metro-108.14

= 54%

All hail math!

Ha! sorry that was flippant! the MSA counties include more people for both cities, guess my point is even in a worst case scenario the areas are even in percentages of population and GMP.

Last edited by Old Trafford; 12-29-2011 at 02:17 PM..
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Old 12-31-2011, 07:02 AM
 
1,830 posts, read 3,110,519 times
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In terms of KC metro, the MO side carries more GMP weight than the KS side. Is clear that corporate HQs don't have proportional relationship to GMP. STL has many HQs yet among lowest per cap GMPs. KC metro has few large HQs yet has higher than avg per cap GMP. KS side has 3 large HQs yet MO side carried more GMP.

Kansas side of KC metro $46B
Missouri side of KC metro $54B

Greater Kansas City Chamber of Commerce - Economic Data (http://www.kcchamber.com/RESOURCES-SERVICES/Economic-Data/ECONOMIC-SNAPSHOT-of-KANSAS-CITY-MSA.aspx - broken link)
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