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Old 10-17-2011, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Tower Grove East, St. Louis, MO
12,064 posts, read 27,246,238 times
Reputation: 3739

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PVPete View Post
But St. Louis doesn't have 150 sq/miles of suburbs attached to its city limits, so what I said is actually "correct."
Sure, but you're trying to make a point that the city is "in trouble" when Kansas City clearly isn't based solely on population numbers, which is simply not a fair assumption to make given the apples to oranges comparison you are making. Ya know?

Any comparisons made based soley on population and density will be moot when you're comparing a place with 61 sq/miles and one with 313 sq/miles.

Kansas Citians are fleeing to the burbs just as much, the burbs are just included in the population!
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Old 10-17-2011, 01:47 PM
 
210 posts, read 349,289 times
Reputation: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by aragx6 View Post
Sure, but you're trying to make a point that the city is "in trouble" when Kansas City clearly isn't based solely on population numbers, which is simply not a fair assumption to make given the apples to oranges comparison you are making. Ya know?

Any comparisons made based soley on population and density will be moot when you're comparing a place with 61 sq/miles and one with 313 sq/miles.

Kansas Citians are fleeing to the burbs just as much, the burbs are just included in the population!
But it is important when you're talking about a central city's ability to keep up infrastructure and continue development. KC has been able to do that because it annexed the north which tends to help KC keep up the infrastructure of its central city (downtown). St. Louis doesn't have affluent areas to help pay the bell (although they have some regional districts that help pay for cultural amenities, I don't believe they have any such measures that help them pay the regular bills). That's why a lot of downtown St. Louis areas are crumbling - they simply don't have the resources to help pay for those things, and they're losing population to help pay for it.
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Old 10-17-2011, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Tower Grove East, St. Louis, MO
12,064 posts, read 27,246,238 times
Reputation: 3739
A few more to monk's list:

Art Museum
History museum
CityGarden
Laumeir Sculpture Park
The Muny has 1,500 free seats set aside at every performance.
Grant's Farm
The Bird Sanctuary
Chokia Mounds
The Arch/Museum of Westward Expansion/The Old Courthouse
The Cathedral Basilica
The Magic House is free the third Friday of the month
The Botanical Garden also has free days, though not sure what they are anymore

There's truly no comparison when it comes to free. St. Louis beats damn near every city in the country when it comes to free stuff.

Pete, what is family-friendly shopping at the Legends? What makes it family friendly?
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Old 10-17-2011, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
10,707 posts, read 18,536,846 times
Reputation: 5420
I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. I think StL is much better for local families.

While it's really cool that KC is getting that aquarium and lego center, those are nothing more than tourist traps. Locals are going to pay one time and one time only to visit the legoland discovery center and rather small aquarium at 14-20 bucks a head. They probably wouldn't be worth a second visit even if money wasn't an issue.

While StL has a world class Science Center and Zoo and Botanical Gardens that are free (well gardens half price for county/city residents). Like I mentioned, Grants Farm, City Museum, Magic House etc all really cool and affordable family attractions too.

And it's also free to take the family on a bike ride on the KATY trail along the MO river too, much better than anything in KC.

KC has some AWESOME attractions. The WWI museum, Nelson, Steamboat etc, but as far as things that local families can do over and over, StL wins hand down.
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Old 10-17-2011, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Tower Grove East, St. Louis, MO
12,064 posts, read 27,246,238 times
Reputation: 3739
Quote:
Originally Posted by PVPete View Post
But it is important when you're talking about a central city's ability to keep up infrastructure and continue development. KC has been able to do that because it annexed the north which tends to help KC keep up the infrastructure of its central city (downtown). St. Louis doesn't have affluent areas to help pay the bell (although they have some regional districts that help pay for cultural amenities, I don't believe they have any such measures that help them pay the regular bills). That's why a lot of downtown St. Louis areas are crumbling - they simply don't have the resources to help pay for those things, and they're losing population to help pay for it.
You make me want to agree with you, as your point is a valid one, but then you say the bolded above which is patently untrue.

But again, I'm inclined to agree with you, as are many St. Louisans. There's been a ton of renewed discussion in the last few years about St. Louis city finally becoming one of the municipalities of St. Louis County, which would be a great step moving forward and would likely open some annexation possibilities. St. Louis county lost a great deal of population in the last decade and are starting to see the costs of aging infrastructure, so sudden;y reunification doesn't seem like such a crazy notion nowadays.
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Old 10-17-2011, 02:13 PM
 
210 posts, read 349,289 times
Reputation: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by aragx6 View Post
A few more to monk's list:

Art Museum
History museum
CityGarden
Laumeir Sculpture Park
The Muny has 1,500 free seats set aside at every performance.
Grant's Farm
The Bird Sanctuary
Chokia Mounds
The Arch/Museum of Westward Expansion/The Old Courthouse
The Cathedral Basilica
The Magic House is free the third Friday of the month
The Botanical Garden also has free days, though not sure what they are anymore

There's truly no comparison when it comes to free. St. Louis beats damn near every city in the country when it comes to free stuff.

Pete, what is family-friendly shopping at the Legends? What makes it family friendly?
All the more reason to have a regional cultural tax here in KC. That's why St. Louis has more free stuff. I don't deny that. I'm just saying KC has more stuff overall, and most of it isn't very expensive.

Its family friendly because they gear a lot of it towards kids for better or for worse. Fountains, T-Rex restaurant, kids shops, etc.

Anyway, my point wasn't to say city X is better than city Y, I like both KC and St. Louis a lot, could have lived in either city and been just happy with it.
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Old 10-17-2011, 02:18 PM
 
Location: Tower Grove East, St. Louis, MO
12,064 posts, read 27,246,238 times
Reputation: 3739
Haha, the T-Rex restaurant is a perfect example of family-friendly shopping actually. I'd forgotten about that
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Old 10-17-2011, 02:29 PM
 
327 posts, read 820,463 times
Reputation: 254
[quote=GraniteStater;21318793]Are you implying singles have an agenda? WOW It's no wonder that KC has issues retaining and growing a larger single professional demographic outside of the already established core areas of the city and metro.

Everyone has an agenda (one would hope), and I'm very surprised that you did not know this!

Housing prices? Negligible... They are both cheaper than the national average.

You are correct, but relocation to STL from a city with a lower cost of real estate does make a difference in a buyer's purchasing power.

Last edited by smellykat; 10-17-2011 at 02:42 PM.. Reason: clarification
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Old 10-17-2011, 03:04 PM
 
Location: IN
20,190 posts, read 34,545,034 times
Reputation: 12524
[quote=smellykat;21321560]
Quote:
Originally Posted by GraniteStater View Post
Are you implying singles have an agenda? WOW It's no wonder that KC has issues retaining and growing a larger single professional demographic outside of the already established core areas of the city and metro.

Everyone has an agenda (one would hope), and I'm very surprised that you did not know this!

Housing prices? Negligible... They are both cheaper than the national average.

You are correct, but relocation to STL from a city with a lower cost of real estate does make a difference in a buyer's purchasing power.
Agenda in terms of Progressive vs Regressive?



Just having fun
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Old 10-17-2011, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Middle America
35,827 posts, read 39,461,204 times
Reputation: 48637
Quote:
Originally Posted by aragx6 View Post
When I meet someone here or in Chicago or in Columbia that was disdainful of St. Louis and I asked them why or where they'd been, most of the time it's those same things you mentioned. I've had the opportunity a few times over the last few years to play shepherd to some STL tourists and it's been such a great experience to really show them what the town is all about. St. Louis, and Kansas City for that matter, aren't cities like Chicago which just opens its arms to you in a big, sparkly, vibrant hug. Other, smaller cities require research and guidance.

It's also been fun to do that for folks who are from St. Louis. I took my mom through Lafayette Square recently and she looked like she was going to cry. I mean, show someone a photo and ask them what city it's from, and few will guess it's St. Louis unless they've had an opportunity to go there.
I for the life of me can't really ever understand why anybody is disdainful of either KC OR STL...particularly people who hail from either. I lived in Chicago, Chicago's great, I get it, KC is not Chicago. STL is not Chicago. But that doesn't make either suck. It just makes them not Chicago. Which isn't always a bad thing.

Anytime I've ever had anybody come visit me in KC, or had somebody from home meet up with me in STL (it's a good halfway point), and have had the chance to really show them around, they've always been amazed at how they "never knew" how cool either was.

The only people who've gone to great lengths to put on their rudest yawn faces are SO's relatives from NY. But they're NYers, being disdainful of everything not NY is a way of life. Never mind that most of them are NYC transplants at best, hailing in reality from such chi-chi locales as Buffalo. Ya can take the gal/guy outta Buffalo...
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