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Old 11-21-2011, 10:38 AM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
3,273 posts, read 2,377,949 times
Reputation: 2169
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
Walmart is not even the issue here. Why is nobody even talking about the use of STAR bonds here.

That just blows my mind.
Well hopefully what's built will be a relatively decent piece of new urbanism. Also, I think RP and Mission could go downhill pretty fast and it's great that there's an effort to put something nice in the center of the area, to be proactive in that regard. While I do wish things could be even better, I'm greatful an effort is being put forth, particularly relative to current economics.

This isn't much different than Briarcliff using super TIF to build an upscale shopping center attached to an upscale subdivision. Before you say anything about WyCo. God, that place needed something and I didn't see it happening otherwise. Where else has STAR bonds been used? Maybe there's a better example to have beef with. Wouldn't this Mission project only be the 2nd use of STAR bonds?
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Old 11-21-2011, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Old Hyde Park, Kansas City,MO
1,145 posts, read 1,032,168 times
Reputation: 531
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
Walmart is not even the issue here. Why is nobody even talking about the use of STAR bonds here.

The use (abuse) of star bonds in KS is off the charts mind boggling to me, yet this practice is generally ignored, if not justified by nearly everybody in KC. While much less aggressive incentives are used to rebuild urban kcmo are generally labeled as corrupt and constantly ridiculed.

That just blows my mind.
True
If this was a whole foods or IKEA being built with these Star Bonds nobody would probably care but since it's a walmart everyone has to throw up a stink. What is the point to even build with private dollars anymore? A big company can just wait for cities to give out free money.
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Old 11-21-2011, 10:43 AM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
7,223 posts, read 8,427,969 times
Reputation: 2864
Quote:
Originally Posted by MOKAN View Post
Well hopefully what's built will be a relatively decent piece of new urbanism. Also, I think RP and Mission could go downhill pretty fast and it's great that there's an effort to put something nice in the center of the area, to be proactive in that regard. While I do wish things could be even better, I'm greatful an effort is being put forth, particularly relative to current economics.

This isn't much different than Briarcliff using super TIF to build an upscale shopping center attached to an upscale subdivision. Before you say anything about WyCo. God, that place needed something and I didn't see it happening otherwise. Where else has STAR bonds been used? Maybe there's a better example to have beef with. Wouldn't this Mission project only be the 2nd use of STAR bonds?
Kansas... the "corporate welfare state"

Interestingly enough, this quote from my first post in that thread came true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
Massive museum project seeks sales tax incentive from Overland Park - KansasCity.com (http://www.kansascity.com/2010/11/14/2430692/massive-museum-project-seeks-sales.html - broken link)

Another massive public incentive handout in the “corporate welfare state”.

Developers are getting 96 million for a 588 million dollar project in one of the wealthiest suburban areas of the country.

That’s 16% of the cost to build a greenfield development in an area that doesn’t need incentives to build in. But if you think this will end up being a 588 million dollar project, you are as gullible as those that approve these types of incentives.

Chances are very good that the project will never get out of the first phase before going bankrupt or changing owners yet the developers will have plowed 96 million dollars into a 100 million dollar project. See Corbin Park…
They have since had to add a 1 cent sales tax to also pay for the project. Corporate welfare there is seriously out of control and it's still far from being leased up. All while Corbin Park is a total mess just down the street, which is also subsidized, not with star bonds, but still subsidized.

Briarcliff replaced an industrial landfill btw and the super tiff money from that has gone to build interchanges and roads and now the hotel parking garage, not the actual development itself, which is how KS uses star bonds. A better comparison would be more like KCMO and MO BUILDING zona rosa with super tiff. Zona Rosa is not subsidized.
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Old 11-21-2011, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
3,273 posts, read 2,377,949 times
Reputation: 2169
Quote:
Originally Posted by brewcrew1000 View Post
True
If this was a whole foods or IKEA being built with these Star Bonds nobody would probably care but since it's a walmart everyone has to throw up a stink. What is the point to even build with private dollars anymore? A big company can just wait for cities to give out free money.
Or they could just avoid areas that aren't incredibly desirable all together, much like most of KCMO south of the river. I wish something like this Mission project could be done at the Landing, for instance.
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Old 11-21-2011, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Volker, Kansas City, MO
12,062 posts, read 17,833,573 times
Reputation: 3597
Quote:
Originally Posted by MOKAN View Post
Uh, it's an obsolete format for Walmart? It's small and substandard and certainly doesn't fit the nicer direction Walmart's newest stores are going. Do you not agree? I thought everybody knew that about that Walmart.

That said, the possibility of Walmart opening a neighborhood market in that location just popped into my mind. I wonder if they'd have that on the table considering the proximity of the site for the new store.
Your definition of ghetto is clearly different (and more made up) than mine.

Last edited by aragx6; 11-21-2011 at 10:56 AM..
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Old 11-21-2011, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
3,273 posts, read 2,377,949 times
Reputation: 2169
Quote:
Originally Posted by aragx6 View Post
You're definition of ghetto is clearly different (and more made up) than mine.
Yeah, I was using the word lightly, as any non-autistic person ought to have been able to perceive, especially when they are familiar with the Walmart being talked about.
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Old 12-01-2011, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Overland Park, KS
5 posts, read 3,042 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
I occasionally go to this Wal-mart and am curious what you find "ghetto" about it.
The customers? No, seriously. The Roeland Park location will be closed and it is an orphan in this market. It is too big to be small. Too small to be big. Too close to Walmart down the road for anyone else.
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Old 12-01-2011, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Overland Park, KS
5 posts, read 3,042 times
Reputation: 11
It took about 10 years to re-develop the Lowe's / Price Chopper plaza after Venture closed.
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Old 12-01-2011, 02:07 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
3,273 posts, read 2,377,949 times
Reputation: 2169
Same thing for the same combo at N. Oak and Vivion.
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Old 01-10-2012, 07:44 PM
390
 
1 posts, read 516 times
Reputation: 15
Default January 23, 2012 Mission, KS Planning Commission Mtg.

To judge just where this long proposed project actually stands, it would be interesting to ask:

1) Are there any tenants that have actually signed leases that are currently in force......not those signed 6 years ago that have probably since lapsed?

2) Will Walmart allow the developer to construct the stores on top of their roof for 3 additional tenants of 50,000 sq. ft. each, after they have opened for business or must both levels of the building be constructed before any of these stores open for business?

3) Has Walmart actually signed a lease and have city staff members been directly in contact with Walmart?

4) The plan calls for three tenants of 50,000 sq. ft. each to locate above Walmart. Have any of these 3 spaces been committed to a tenant yet? If so, who?

5) The plan shows a curb cut from Shawnee Mission Parkway near the Aquarium. Has the state indicated that they will approve this entrance and, if not, what will be done to replace this access point if the state will not approve the plan as shown?

6) The plan shows a theater and a Fitness Center. Have any such companies signed a lease yet?

7) Assuming Tax Increment Financing, or a similar vehicle is utilized for the development of this project, does the developer intend to ask the City of Mission to guarantee the associated bonds?

8) Is it the developer's intention to construct this project in phases, or once construction starts will it be continuously pursued until the completion of all buildings and amenities shown on the development plan?

9) On August 26, 2011 the Kansas City Business Journal reported that Kansas granted Gateway Developers LLC a six-month extension to Dec. 5 on the deadline to break ground and remain eligible for $63 million in sales tax revenue, or STAR, bonds. What is the current deadline from the State for breaking ground?
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