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Old 11-15-2011, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
10,705 posts, read 18,498,983 times
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Disclaimer. This is not sugar coated wonderful news about KC, don't read any further if that bothers you...

Does anything say FAIL more than this? Walmart will be the anchor tenant of a massively state subsidized project in mission. If you can't develop a great infill spot like this using crazy STAR bond incentives with anything other than a walmart anchored project, then that should tell you something about how over built retail is in joco and how little demand there is to build new urbanisim walkable communities in KC. I mean this is only a few miles from the plaza and would have been one of the only places on the KS side that was something other than single family housing zoned separately from everything else. Is there no demand for urban development in KS for those that would never live in MO?

Not to mention, the state will subsidize the bleep out of a development that will no doubt create blight right down the road in Roeland park where there is walmart only a mile away.

Absolutely insane. Another case of the worst state use of incentives I have seen anywhere in the country. The corporate welfare in ks continues. KCK (east of 635) should be the ONLY freaking place in KS where STAR bonds should be allowed after the initial speedway project.

Wal-Mart signs letter of intent for store at stalled Mission Gateway - Kansas City Business Journal

Last edited by kcmo; 11-15-2011 at 04:30 PM..
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Old 11-15-2011, 05:12 PM
 
Location: Old Hyde Park, Kansas City,MO
1,145 posts, read 1,999,483 times
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The good news in all of this is that polsinelli shughart wouldn't want to move to a development anchored by a walmart.
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Old 11-15-2011, 09:23 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
3,572 posts, read 6,198,795 times
Reputation: 2549
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
Disclaimer. This is not sugar coated wonderful news about KC, don't read any further if that bothers you...

Does anything say FAIL more than this? Walmart will be the anchor tenant of a massively state subsidized project in mission. If you can't develop a great infill spot like this using crazy STAR bond incentives with anything other than a walmart anchored project, then that should tell you something about how over built retail is in joco and how little demand there is to build new urbanisim walkable communities in KC. I mean this is only a few miles from the plaza and would have been one of the only places on the KS side that was something other than single family housing zoned separately from everything else. Is there no demand for urban development in KS for those that would never live in MO?

Not to mention, the state will subsidize the bleep out of a development that will no doubt create blight right down the road in Roeland park where there is walmart only a mile away.

Absolutely insane. Another case of the worst state use of incentives I have seen anywhere in the country. The corporate welfare in ks continues. KCK (east of 635) should be the ONLY freaking place in KS where STAR bonds should be allowed after the initial speedway project.

Wal-Mart signs letter of intent for store at stalled Mission Gateway - Kansas City Business Journal
This is said and unfortunate for that location. I know you know already, but it's funny Walmart originally wanted to be there and may have been what got talk and plans for the site initiated. I don't recall for sure how it all happened, but it's funny that it's ending up that Walmart is building there.

As for Roeland Park, I don't see this causing any blight there. Belle Roe Plaza as it's called is new and decent for what it is, though it should have been more urban. The old Walmart location is ghetto anyway.

The Business Journal article was kind of vague, but it seems they still have hope for another 150K sq ft of retail, restaurants and perhaps apartments of offices. So my biggest question is does this mean the new Walmart is going to be innovative and something at least semi-urban, considering the STAR bonds? I've seen a fairly semi-urban Walmart in Omaha on 72nd St. It's got a small parking lot with limited in/outlets and the side of it is at least against the street with a bus stop.
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Old 11-15-2011, 09:51 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
10,705 posts, read 18,498,983 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOKAN View Post
This is said and unfortunate for that location. I know you know already, but it's funny Walmart originally wanted to be there and may have been what got talk and plans for the site initiated. I don't recall for sure how it all happened, but it's funny that it's ending up that Walmart is building there.

As for Roeland Park, I don't see this causing any blight there. Belle Roe Plaza as it's called is new and decent for what it is, though it should have been more urban. The old Walmart location is ghetto anyway.

The Business Journal article was kind of vague, but it seems they still have hope for another 150K sq ft of retail, restaurants and perhaps apartments of offices. So my biggest question is does this mean the new Walmart is going to be innovative and something at least semi-urban, considering the STAR bonds? I've seen a fairly semi-urban Walmart in Omaha on 72nd St. It's got a small parking lot with limited in/outlets and the side of it is at least against the street with a bus stop.
Yea, Mission actually passed a law or something to stop any future proposal to build a big box on that site because walmart wanted to go there from the start. They basically slammed the door in their face and now they need them. Kind of funny.

I'm not against a walmart there. It's probably better than yet another development competing with established urban districts like the plaza just a few miles away. As far as retail goes, basic staples like a walmart or target and others would be better for that residential location. It would have to be somewhat urban or they won’t have much room for anything else.

But the use of STAR bonds just annoys me. This development has been trying very hard to steal a kcmo company from just across state line so they can put them in to a heavily subsidized development. That's just asinine and being able to keep all the state sales taxes generated by a walmart gives them some pretty serious leverage to raise the bar and be able to offer a ton of money to a kcmo company to move over.

In the mean time, the state will use that revenue to fund much of the retail development, which will probably end up being basic staples that would be in the area anyway. They will use the aquarium as an excuse to use star bonds to fund the entire development. The aquarium will not be free, nor will it be major. It will be one of those mall type aquariums like crown center only crown center is being built with private money. This mission project is like the “Smithsonian museum” in south overland park. That museum is nothing more than an empty medium sized box and is only a fraction of the cost of the shopping center, but it’s being used as a reason to use star bonds to build out a retail center in a far flung greenfield in a very affluent area of overland park. Not only do such places belong at union station like they are in most metro areas, that area of joco is so overbuilt with retail that even when using insane incentives to basically build the project with tax money has proved extremely difficult. The mall down the street can’t get out of bankruptcy. Why is a county like JoCo using powerful incentives to build basic retail centers in affluent areas that are already overbuilt while most of KCK is just rotting away?

If this project were in KCK and KS was building a major aquarium at Kaw Point using STAR bonds, then sure. But these projects are nothing but corporate welfare.
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Old 11-16-2011, 05:18 AM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
3,572 posts, read 6,198,795 times
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$200 million Mission Gateway project ready to lift off with Wal-Mart store - KansasCity.com (http://www.kansascity.com/2011/11/15/3267642/200m-mission-gateway-project-ready.html - broken link)

"“This is the best development announcement to occur with this project for a long time,” Valenti said.

Mayor Laura McConwell of Mission said the revised project still retained the key elements her city wanted for the massive development tract.

“We’re happy all the mixed-use elements remain, and we’re staying true to our community’s vision,” she said.

Besides Wal-Mart and the aquarium, other elements of the 26-acre development include an additional 150,000 square feet of retail; 300 apartments; 150,000 square feet of office space; 3,000 parking spaces; a 35,000-square-foot movie complex; and a 45,000-square-foot fitness center.

The project will have several levels, Valenti said, and the Wal-Mart will be on the ground level with access from Johnson Drive, Roeland, and Roe.

“You’re not going to realize it’s a Wal-Mart,” he said. “They’re committed to doing something special there.”

Architectural details are still to be worked out, but Valenti said the revised project “will have some height to it” and the apartments might rise eight to 10 stories."



I first assumed if any new-urban elements were retained in the project it would mean Walmart would be a rather typical store layout facing SM PKWY while the rest of the project was new urbanism. Based on that assumption I was startled when I read Walmart would face Johnson Dr and Roe. However, as you can see in the above quote once I read on I was happily surprised to see it appears the Walmart and entire project will still be unique and remain new urbanism. How well implemented it will be? We won't have a better idea until we see renerings.

Walmart is not that bad, especially if it's innovative and unique. This store will be 150K sq ft vs what was originally going to be over 200K. Roeland Park will not suffer. The Bella Roe Plaza is nice and will continue to thrive, despite the fact it should have been more urban in the first place. The Walmart there is ghetto anyway and obsolete (I mean, isn't it an old "discount city" building?).

It's nice to see the project has been humbled while remaining unique. After all, Mission is not Fairway or Prairie Village. While I applaud their development efforts, the economy just hasn't been friendly for demanding higher standards, so I'm happy with this outcome.
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Old 11-16-2011, 08:59 PM
 
Location: Cleverly concealed
889 posts, read 1,428,548 times
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I think the 51st/Roe Walmart was home to Pace Wholesale Club originally.

I have mixed feelings. I'm tired of watching the weeds generate no revenue. But I have no incentive to visit Walmart considering my proximity to the "Greatland" Target, Hy-Vee, CVS or True Value.

Oh by the way, I just received my mail-in ballot for the next sales tax increase in Mission.
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Old 11-16-2011, 09:19 PM
 
29,988 posts, read 35,855,551 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RadioSilence View Post
I think the 51st/Roe Walmart was home to Pace Wholesale Club originally.

I have mixed feelings. I'm tired of watching the weeds generate no revenue. But I have no incentive to visit Walmart considering my proximity to the "Greatland" Target, Hy-Vee, CVS or True Value.

Oh by the way, I just received my mail-in ballot for the next sales tax increase in Mission.
Agreed. Further down the main drag of Mission closer to Metcalf businesses are closing and storefronts are empty. Frankly I think they are at capacity of shops & retailers to meet the area's demand.

Worse than corporate welfare this is a developer trying to make a buck off the taxpayers of Mission and get the project done for the bond money. Mission Mall died for lack of demand and tenants who could attract shoppers and in this miserable economy I have little reason to believe this would not do the same.

Wouldn't a decent new apartment complex offer more to Mission in the long run than this proposed retail project?
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Old 11-21-2011, 09:58 AM
 
Location: Tower Grove East, St. Louis, MO
12,064 posts, read 27,212,345 times
Reputation: 3739
Quote:
Originally Posted by MOKAN View Post
This is said and unfortunate for that location. I know you know already, but it's funny Walmart originally wanted to be there and may have been what got talk and plans for the site initiated. I don't recall for sure how it all happened, but it's funny that it's ending up that Walmart is building there.

As for Roeland Park, I don't see this causing any blight there. Belle Roe Plaza as it's called is new and decent for what it is, though it should have been more urban. The old Walmart location is ghetto anyway.

The Business Journal article was kind of vague, but it seems they still have hope for another 150K sq ft of retail, restaurants and perhaps apartments of offices. So my biggest question is does this mean the new Walmart is going to be innovative and something at least semi-urban, considering the STAR bonds? I've seen a fairly semi-urban Walmart in Omaha on 72nd St. It's got a small parking lot with limited in/outlets and the side of it is at least against the street with a bus stop.
I occasionally go to this Wal-mart and am curious what you find "ghetto" about it.
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Old 11-21-2011, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
3,572 posts, read 6,198,795 times
Reputation: 2549
Quote:
Originally Posted by aragx6 View Post
I occasionally go to this Wal-mart and am curious what you find "ghetto" about it.
Uh, it's an obsolete format for Walmart? It's small and substandard and certainly doesn't fit the nicer direction Walmart's newest stores are going. Do you not agree? I thought everybody knew that about that Walmart.

That said, the possibility of Walmart opening a neighborhood market in that location just popped into my mind. I wonder if they'd have that on the table considering the proximity of the site for the new store.
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Old 11-21-2011, 10:29 AM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
10,705 posts, read 18,498,983 times
Reputation: 5415
Walmart is not even the issue here. It's ironic and sort of funny, but should not be why people should be upset. Why is nobody even talking about the use of STAR bonds here.

The use (abuse) of star bonds in KS is off the charts mind boggling to me, yet this practice is generally ignored, if not justified by nearly everybody in KC. While much less aggressive incentives are used to rebuild urban kcmo are generally labeled as corrupt and constantly ridiculed.

That just blows my mind.

Last edited by kcmo; 11-21-2011 at 10:38 AM..
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