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Old 11-21-2011, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Tower Grove East, St. Louis, MO
12,064 posts, read 27,212,345 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xenokc View Post
Non-stops fluctuate a lot in non primary airports, especially with the airline mergers and constant adjustments in secondary hubs. STL tends to fluctuate from 60-80 non-stop cities and KCI tends to fluctuate from 50-70 or so cities. KCI had 72 cities a few years ago, before mergers killed some. When KC had Braniff, was probably more. Mergers harm airports more than anything, which is what killed STL (TWA) and Cincy.
True story.
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Old 11-21-2011, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Old Hyde Park, Kansas City,MO
1,145 posts, read 1,999,483 times
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KCI is one of the few airports where some worker has to tell you to hang around and not go to far if you have a connecting flight because the real exit is 2 feet from the gate.
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Old 11-21-2011, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,174 posts, read 22,500,688 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
But KC serves a MUCH Larger market than Indianapolis or Columbus or Milwaukee or Cincy. Those places have another major city airport or airports two hours away.

KCI is the biggest airport for an immediate region of around 3 million (topeka/St Joe etc) and super regional market of like 8-10 million or more as KC is a flying option for places like Iowa, Nebraska, most of Kansas, half of Missouri including some pretty good sized metro areas that are not large enough to sustain an airport like KC.

KC should be a Denver when it come to air travel. It should be one of the largest hubs in the country and the terminal is really the only thing that has kept that from happening IMO.
DIA had over 52 million passengers last year... Could KC support that many? I suppose having two hubs here is what really adds to it.
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Old 11-21-2011, 02:56 PM
 
3,008 posts, read 4,165,740 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
But KC serves a MUCH Larger market than Indianapolis or Columbus or Milwaukee or Cincy. Those places have another major city airport or airports two hours away.

KCI is the biggest airport for an immediate region of around 3 million (topeka/St Joe etc) and super regional market of like 8-10 million or more as KC is a flying option for places like Iowa, Nebraska, most of Kansas, half of Missouri including some pretty good sized metro areas that are not large enough to sustain an airport like KC.

KC should be a Denver when it come to air travel. It should be one of the largest hubs in the country and the terminal is really the only thing that has kept that from happening IMO.
Like Denver, KC's isolation means it should have a larger market to fly from. Heck, it takes me oh 25 minutes to reach IIA from my home and only takes a little over an hour to reach Cincy's airport, 1 hr 40 min to reach Louisville International and little over an hour to reach Dayton,3 hours for Port Columbus and 4 1/2 (after you factor in traffic) to reach O'Hare and/or Midway and about 5 for Detroit airport, blah competition sucks!
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Old 11-21-2011, 04:34 PM
 
Location: KC Area
345 posts, read 692,072 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denverian View Post
DIA had over 52 million passengers last year... Could KC support that many? I suppose having two hubs here is what really adds to it.
Kansas City could have supported that many, but probably never will. At best, if we get a new terminal and Frontier gets out of their struggle right now, we could be a 25 million a year airport.

Also, Denver is the third largest hub for United (Continental included), the largest airline in the world. It is the fifth largest market for Southwest, the most traveled domestic. It is also a hub for Frontier, one of the fastest growing airlines (with help from Republic). 95% of Frontier's 15 million passengers involve Denver. If you fly on Southwest anywhere from east to west, you will probably stop in Denver.

Have you seen Denver's international options? They have a few nonstops to Canada and Mexico, but then there's only London. Denver is not a huge international hub (i.e. LAX, JFK, or even on a smaller scale Seattle). Denver is not even in the top 20 in the United States. It helps that Denver is a huge regional hub, the gateway to the mountain towns (tourism), and has a good number of Fortune 500's to help with business travelers.

The point is without these three airlines, and great national importance, Denver would be your average joe when it comes to air travel. But these airlines have really had a huge impact on air travel in America, and when you have them in one city, you get a huge impact on their airport.
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Old 11-21-2011, 06:00 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
10,705 posts, read 18,498,983 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaxontwinz View Post
Kansas City could have supported that many, but probably never will. At best, if we get a new terminal and Frontier gets out of their struggle right now, we could be a 25 million a year airport.

Also, Denver is the third largest hub for United (Continental included), the largest airline in the world. It is the fifth largest market for Southwest, the most traveled domestic. It is also a hub for Frontier, one of the fastest growing airlines (with help from Republic). 95% of Frontier's 15 million passengers involve Denver. If you fly on Southwest anywhere from east to west, you will probably stop in Denver.

Have you seen Denver's international options? They have a few nonstops to Canada and Mexico, but then there's only London. Denver is not a huge international hub (i.e. LAX, JFK, or even on a smaller scale Seattle). Denver is not even in the top 20 in the United States. It helps that Denver is a huge regional hub, the gateway to the mountain towns (tourism), and has a good number of Fortune 500's to help with business travelers.

The point is without these three airlines, and great national importance, Denver would be your average joe when it comes to air travel. But these airlines have really had a huge impact on air travel in America, and when you have them in one city, you get a huge impact on their airport.
But the question is why? The airport has a lot to do with it. Southwest was not even in the Denver market a few years ago. KC's location and market could easily make it a major airport city. It may be to late for KC to be a major hub like Denver, but it can get a lot better than it is today with a new terminal.
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Old 11-21-2011, 06:42 PM
 
Location: KC Area
345 posts, read 692,072 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
But the question is why? The airport has a lot to do with it. Southwest was not even in the Denver market a few years ago. KC's location and market could easily make it a major airport city. It may be to late for KC to be a major hub like Denver, but it can get a lot better than it is today with a new terminal.
Absolutely it can get better. I would love to see it get better (new terminal). Something very accessible and easy to move around easily. I thought the airport master plan image of the proposed terminal looked fantastic! It looked so simple and accessible from parking to not having long walks to your gate.

Why Denver?
- Has 4 million people in the Front Range corridor, that puts it with Phoenix and Seattle, pop. wise.
- It has huge regional dominance, as important to mountains as Chicago is to the midwest.
- Has a number or Fortune 500's, leads to many business travelers, making airlines want to move there.
- It is a new airport. It will draw major airlines to it.

If Kansas City gets a new terminal, it will also draw new airlines and airlines will want to move their. Frontier could have a great hub if not for the current layout. And who knows, by 2020 (when the new terminal is projected to open), there will probably new and possibly more powerful airlines looking for a hub. Fingers crossed for KCI!! We will need it.
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Old 11-21-2011, 08:53 PM
 
Location: Cleverly concealed
889 posts, read 1,428,548 times
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As spoiled as I feel walking out of the terminal directly to a blue bus, I'm not opposed nor blind to a future single terminal design, especially if the designers can learn from the mistakes of other airports. In other airports, while I can return a rental car close to the terminal, just walking to a ticket kiosk sometimes requires traveling up three floors, through a long corridor, down two floors to a monorail platform, take the rail then maybe go up two more floors to the ticket counter. We can do better.

Typically, the security bottlenecks I've encountered are directly related to a lack of people on staff. In Minneapolis a couple of months ago, I spent 50 minutes in an 8am security line because one out of five lanes was open.

My biggest concerns, unable to read the market ten years from now, is continued airline consolidation and the likely lack of demand for extremely long international flights from Kansas City to Shanghai or London (for example). The idea of attracting more business/more flights through a massive terminal reconstruction seems optimistic in the current climate.

Last edited by RadioSilence; 11-21-2011 at 09:34 PM..
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Old 11-22-2011, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,174 posts, read 22,500,688 times
Reputation: 10428
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaxontwinz View Post
Kansas City could have supported that many, but probably never will. At best, if we get a new terminal and Frontier gets out of their struggle right now, we could be a 25 million a year airport.

Also, Denver is the third largest hub for United (Continental included), the largest airline in the world. It is the fifth largest market for Southwest, the most traveled domestic. It is also a hub for Frontier, one of the fastest growing airlines (with help from Republic). 95% of Frontier's 15 million passengers involve Denver. If you fly on Southwest anywhere from east to west, you will probably stop in Denver.

Have you seen Denver's international options? They have a few nonstops to Canada and Mexico, but then there's only London. Denver is not a huge international hub (i.e. LAX, JFK, or even on a smaller scale Seattle). Denver is not even in the top 20 in the United States. It helps that Denver is a huge regional hub, the gateway to the mountain towns (tourism), and has a good number of Fortune 500's to help with business travelers.

The point is without these three airlines, and great national importance, Denver would be your average joe when it comes to air travel. But these airlines have really had a huge impact on air travel in America, and when you have them in one city, you get a huge impact on their airport.
DIA has a daily non-stop to Frankfurt on Lufthansa, London on British Airways, and I think United also has a daily non-stop to Franfurt. Then next May will begin a daily nonstop to Reklavek (or however you spell it!) on Icelandic Air. I believe it's Mexicana that has daily nonstops to Mexico City, and then Frontier flies daily to resorts in Mexico and one flight to Costa Rica - and not international, but United has a daily nonstop to Honolulu from Denver. They're getting closer to landing a non-stop to Tokyo on ANA as well. But yes, there are other airports with many more international flights.
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Old 11-22-2011, 08:39 AM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,174 posts, read 22,500,688 times
Reputation: 10428
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaxontwinz View Post
Absolutely it can get better. I would love to see it get better (new terminal). Something very accessible and easy to move around easily. I thought the airport master plan image of the proposed terminal looked fantastic! It looked so simple and accessible from parking to not having long walks to your gate.

Why Denver?
- Has 4 million people in the Front Range corridor, that puts it with Phoenix and Seattle, pop. wise.
- It has huge regional dominance, as important to mountains as Chicago is to the midwest.
- Has a number or Fortune 500's, leads to many business travelers, making airlines want to move there.
- It is a new airport. It will draw major airlines to it.

If Kansas City gets a new terminal, it will also draw new airlines and airlines will want to move their. Frontier could have a great hub if not for the current layout. And who knows, by 2020 (when the new terminal is projected to open), there will probably new and possibly more powerful airlines looking for a hub. Fingers crossed for KCI!! We will need it.
I think with a new terminal and considering where STL is right now, it KCI could definitely grow a lot.
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