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Old 11-23-2011, 10:33 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
7,649 posts, read 5,638,332 times
Reputation: 7496

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Quote:
Originally Posted by aragx6 View Post
^Body scanners actually aren't even that useful when they have them. See this article: TSA Source: Armed Agent Slips Past DFW Body Scanner | NBC Dallas-Fort Worth

That's not a symptom of "fear mongering" it's a problem with government lobbying. Ex-Homeland Security chief head said to abuse public trust by touting body scanners

There Crown Vic and I might just agree, but the idea that we should have looser restrictions, to me, is nonsense. It's just a matter of how we spend valuable resources.
Looser restrictions?

Who said anything about looser restrictions? It is a question of how and where restrictions are applied.

Strange as it may seem to those of you who are my kids' age or younger, it wasn't that long ago that we did not have terrorists walking among us....back when airports were "loose". Now how could that have been?

There's more than one way to climb a mountain peak and a generation ago we picked the one that goes right off the edge into the gorge half way up.

Much as I know how much you love to argue with me, you're too damned smart not to understand the slippery slope we are sliding down....FAST.
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Old 11-23-2011, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Tower Grove East, St. Louis, MO
12,064 posts, read 27,207,945 times
Reputation: 3739
No, I'm intelligent enough to know that people use slippery slope arguments as their straw man when they have little else to focus on.
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Old 11-23-2011, 11:18 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
7,649 posts, read 5,638,332 times
Reputation: 7496
Quote:
Originally Posted by aragx6 View Post
No, I'm intelligent enough to know that people use slippery slope arguments as their straw man when they have little else to focus on.
Sometimes I puzzle myself wondering how many more times I'm going to have to learn the same thing.

Geeeeezzzzzz.....
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Old 11-23-2011, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,174 posts, read 22,496,291 times
Reputation: 10428
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownVic95 View Post
Looser restrictions?

Who said anything about looser restrictions? It is a question of how and where restrictions are applied.

Strange as it may seem to those of you who are my kids' age or younger, it wasn't that long ago that we did not have terrorists walking among us....back when airports were "loose". Now how could that have been?
Well, if you can figure out how to put that cat back in the bag, then maybe we can remove the scanners from the airports
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Old 11-24-2011, 12:47 AM
 
368 posts, read 518,105 times
Reputation: 333
consolodation in the airline industry has reduced the number of hub cities..pittsburgh and cincinnati have have huge modern terminals ,mostly empty today after mergers..perhaps kc should do what indianapolis did..a new terminal with modest ambitions..the days of every city with a hub are over..at least cleveland didnt spend millions on a new terminal before continental merged
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Old 11-24-2011, 07:31 AM
 
1,830 posts, read 3,109,783 times
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KCI's traffic is already higher than Pitt, Cincy and Indy.

KCI is ranked 32nd (I think 5th in Midwest)
RITA | BTS | Transtats

STL took probably the biggest hit. Was once top 10 and now 31st, only one notch above KCI
RITA | BTS | Transtats

Pitt 45th
RITA | BTS | Transtats

Indy 48th
RITA | BTS | Transtats

Cincy really took a hit and is now 50th
RITA | BTS | Transtats

All KCI needs to become hub friendly is to have services available while within the secure area and to get to all gates in terminal w/out re-entering security. When they added the security gates, it screwed up the airport design.

One thing they could do is just build a single main terminal (for ticketing/pickup/dropoff) where the circle drive is today and completely secure each of the existing terminals. Have trams to each 'satellite' terminal from the main terminal. The satellite terminals would only need one security checkpoint each and hub travelers could roam entire terminal and use all services. This is the same as the Tampa and Orlando models. Seems this would be easier/less expensive to pull off than what is planned but the other options work for me too if something gets approved.

The downside to being a hub is that if one airline dominates (like MSP), ticket prices for locals will be higher. Being a secondary hub for SWA and Frontier and maybe another small carrier would be more ideal. This could probably be done using the existing terminals that have 90+ gates. Not sure how many gates are planned for the new one.
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Old 11-24-2011, 08:10 AM
 
3,008 posts, read 4,164,683 times
Reputation: 1524
Quote:
Originally Posted by xenokc View Post
KCI's traffic is already higher than Pitt, Cincy and Indy.

KCI is ranked 32nd (I think 5th in Midwest)
RITA | BTS | Transtats

STL took probably the biggest hit. Was once top 10 and now 31st, only one notch above KCI
RITA | BTS | Transtats

Pitt 45th
RITA | BTS | Transtats

Indy 48th
RITA | BTS | Transtats

Cincy really took a hit and is now 50th
RITA | BTS | Transtats

All KCI needs to become hub friendly is to have services available while within the secure area and to get to all gates in terminal w/out re-entering security. When they added the security gates, it screwed up the airport design.

One thing they could do is just build a single main terminal (for ticketing/pickup/dropoff) where the circle drive is today and completely secure each of the existing terminals. Have trams to each 'satellite' terminal from the main terminal. The satellite terminals would only need one security checkpoint each and hub travelers could roam entire terminal and use all services. This is the same as the Tampa and Orlando models. Seems this would be easier/less expensive to pull off than what is planned but the other options work for me too if something gets approved.

The downside to being a hub is that if one airline dominates (like MSP), ticket prices for locals will be higher. Being a secondary hub for SWA and Frontier and maybe another small carrier would be more ideal. This could probably be done using the existing terminals that have 90+ gates. Not sure how many gates are planned for the new one.
For KC to become a hub city you need to redo your terminal completely. KC like Denver is literally the only thing for miles on end because while more geographically located in the nation, populated places wise, you are in the middle of nowhere. That should make KC a prime stop esp. going east and west. If the terminal is like you all describe it, why would anyone want to truly stop there for layovers, refueling, etc. if there isn't anything there to entertain/cater to the masses.

Cities like Indianapolis with Chicago in its shadow makes it difficult to be a hub since every airline is going to have O'Hare as a hub pretty much so it makes up for it by being a huge cargo airport as well. Losing both ATA and secondary hub status of USAir kind of hurt. More midsized metros are starting to suffer that fate esp. with large metros in their shadow so I would say within the next 5-10 years there will be so much consolidation that hub cities will either be large metros or cities that are the dominant city in the region like Denver/MSP/KC where there isn't any competition.
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Old 11-25-2011, 08:31 AM
 
Location: St. Louis City
447 posts, read 765,429 times
Reputation: 198
When American withdrew from St. Louis, other airlines increased their service levels. We still have flights to over 70 destinations in the US - without a hub. If American were to return, I think you would see the other airlines service. A hub does not create more traffic, it moves it from one place to another. My point is that if KCI were to land a hub, it would not be 100% incremental activity to the passenger traffic, other airlines would reduce service.
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Old 11-28-2011, 01:50 PM
 
1,830 posts, read 3,109,783 times
Reputation: 532
The advantage of a hub is typically more non-stop cities and likely more flight options per city. The passenger count increase is just the outcome, not necessarily the benefit. But IMO it's better to be a secondary hub for 3 smaller airlines than 1 major one. The locals get both competitive fares and more flight options. If just 1 major airline... no competition = higher prices.
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Old 11-28-2011, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Tower Grove East, St. Louis, MO
12,064 posts, read 27,207,945 times
Reputation: 3739
Quote:
Originally Posted by xenokc View Post
The advantage of a hub is typically more non-stop cities and likely more flight options per city. The passenger count increase is just the outcome, not necessarily the benefit. But IMO it's better to be a secondary hub for 3 smaller airlines than 1 major one. The locals get both competitive fares and more flight options. If just 1 major airline... no competition = higher prices.

And, of course, one means that if they were to be bought out, ya'll would be screwed. Hello, Lambert.

Though I will say that I flew out of STL yesterday and liked it a lot better than MCI -- it was a busy day, so i wanted to get through security as soon as possible, and it sure was nice to be able to buy a beer, use the toilet and buy a magazine once I was on the other side. I'm hopeful that KC will build something new, as I just don't see any way to fix it for a post-9/11 world.
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