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Old 12-18-2011, 11:57 PM
 
Location: IN
20,238 posts, read 34,612,622 times
Reputation: 12585

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Earth View Post
Marion County, Indiana had -10.8% employment growth from 2000-2009, the same as Jackson County. Marion County is the core of the Indianapolis metro area in a way that Jackson County isn't for KC. Marion has the entire city of Indianapolis, plus some suburbs.

Marion County QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

Cass and Platte County employment grew faster than JoCo from 2000-2009.

Cass County QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau
Platte County QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau
Johnson County QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

Ah, but you're always saying that KC is the Sunbelt. So it is when you want it to be, but it isn't when you don't want it to be.
Cass and Platte counties have a higher percentage job growth, but a much lower baseline compared to JOCO.

Indy suffered a big loss in jobs in the urban core so I don't deny that fact. However, total percentage job growth was greater in counties such as Hamilton and Hendricks, one of which has a higher median household income than any county in KC and is growing at around 50% every 10 years. So, one could make the argument that Hamilton county is what JOCO was like in the 80s and 90s with extremely fast population growth rates.

KC has far more Sunbelt influences now compared to the 1970s. Places change and KC is more influenced by cities to the Southwest compared to the past...
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Old 12-19-2011, 10:28 AM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
10,713 posts, read 18,581,602 times
Reputation: 5445
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Earth View Post
Yes, this is your main issue and I just fundamentally disagree with you. I always have. I don't think it matters where the corporate HQ is in the metro area, so long as it's in the metro area. I don't think it matters if more jobs are in JoCo than downtown KCMO. The KC metro area is easy enough to get around in that people can commute to wherever the jobs are. Leawood is just over the state line from KCMO. People can live in downtown KCMO and commute to Corporate Woods for a job.

I want downtown and the Plaza and other urban parts of the city to be healthy. It's not a zero sum game. You can have both. You can have suburbs and city.

Compare Minneapolis and KC. There are only a few major companies based in the urban core of Minneapolis. Target and U.S. Bank are the biggest ones. Both have headquarters on Nicollet Mall, which is kind of like Country Club Plaza if Country Club Plaza was downtown. Most of the major companies in Minneapolis are in suburban areas.

General Mills moved to suburban Golden Valley in the 1950s. Best Buy is along I-494 in Richfield. 3M is in a suburban area east of St. Paul. I could go down the list. Supervalu, UnitedHealth Group, Medtronic. A lot of the major companies in Minneapolis are in suburban areas just like Johnson County.

So what? This is what cities look like. Not everything is concentrated in the urban core.

I have long believed that you have a particular bias against the state of Kansas, and that is what drives your invective. I don't believe that you are against things being dispersed, on principle. I think that you are against Kansas. That's where you always steer the conversation. I rarely, if ever, steer the conversation toward hating Missouri. I have made almost no comments ever on this forum disparaging Missouri.
Well, let me ease your mind. If the sprint campus, corporate woods etc were all along 470 instead of 435 and Lee's Summit was offering 47 million to companies like AMC to move to Woods Chapel and 470 I would feel the same way about those areas. I rip places like Lee's Summit and Blue Springs all the time for using incentives like tifs and supertiff to subsidize retail centers. While what they often do can inflict harm on the urban core, or inner ring suburbs or even themselves, what they do is more in line with what is "normal" for suburbs to do. What goes on in Kansas is a completely different animal that you and most other people in KC simply refuse to acknowledge or find reasons to justify.

And KC is not Minneapolis or Denver or St Louis. That "imaginary" state line is far less imaginary than you would like to admit. I have pointed out many times how most metro areas have regional cultural districts and regional economic pacts. Sure companies move to the suburbs, but they are not "bought" by the suburbs with the extreme use of incentives. If Kansas is going to offer AMC or Quintiles or whoever 40 million bucks to move across the state line, it should be to downtown KCK not some JoCo office park. Been to Downtown St Paul? It's nice. Been to Downtown KCK? It's a freaking joke. Even the EPA is moving to a far flung office park. Kansas is subsidizing its suburban sprawl like few other places in the country do and it's doing often at the expense of both central kcmo and its own kck. They didn't mean to but the original subsidy for the Applebee's HQ is what led to the loss of the EPA in KCK.

The other issue is the regional cultural issue. Denver has five or six counties that fund the stadiums etc. St Louis has a cultural district where StL City and StL County fund many regional attractions in the city. You can say that St Charles doesn't help out and they don't but at least StL has most of its wealthiest urban and suburban neighborhoods in the district. KC's is split down the state line so if you are in KS, you don't have to worry about it.

Minneapolis has a powerful regional overlay government to prevent excessive poaching and to help suburbs share revenue (so suburbs don't fight over walmarts) and Cincinnati has a strong regional alliance with Northern KY to work as a single metro to bring in new companies to the metro and not feed off each other.

That imaginary line is very real in KC and yes, I do think that suburbs and city can compliment each other and co-exist. They do in places like Denver and Minneapolis. Not so much in KC. Kinda my point.
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Old 12-19-2011, 09:08 PM
 
Location: Overland Park, Kansas
82 posts, read 149,950 times
Reputation: 36
Some interesting differences in the numbers for the Kansas City MO-KS metro versus the Minneapolis/St.Paul/Bloomington MN-WI metro. These are from a report I ran for year 2010 at the Missouri Census Data Center website.

ACS Profile Report (2010), Missouri Census Data Center

Total population

KC -- 2,035,747
MN -- 3,286,195

Median household income

KC -- 53,919
MN -- 62,352

Median earnings for workers

KC -- 31,164
MN -- 35,118

Persons below Poverty

KC -- 12.4%
MN -- 10.9%

Civilians Employed in Management, Professional and Related Occupations

KC -- 38.0%
MN -- 42.0%

Workers by Industry: Manufacturing

KC -- 09.8%
MN -- 13.4%

Education: Associates Degree

KC -- 6.8%
MN -- 9.4%

Education: Bachelors Degree

KC -- 20.6%
MN -- 25.4%

Education: Graduate or Professional Degree

KC -- 11.9%
MN -- 12.5%

US Native, Born in State of Current Residence

KC -- 53.6%
MN -- 64.4%

US Native, Born in Different State Than Current Residence

KC -- 39.5%
MN -- 25.4%

Foreign Born

KC -- 6.2% (36.9% of these are Naturalized Citizens)
MN -- 9.5% (45.0% of these are Naturalized Citizens)

Percentage of Foreign Born From Asia

KC -- 27.9%
MN -- 39.0%

Percentage of Foreign Born From Africa

KC -- 09.2%
MN -- 21.4%

Percentage of Foreign Born From Latin and Central America (includes Mexico)

KC -- 50.2%
MN -- 25.6%
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Old 12-20-2011, 02:50 AM
 
368 posts, read 519,530 times
Reputation: 333
indianapolis msa grew by 9.2 %..there is a typo in wikipedia that says 15%.i believe kc and minneapolis grew at a faster rate.wikipedia took indys 2000 msa before 2 counties were added and then the 2010 msa with the additional counties..9.2% is pretty respectable and idny is doing great but dont use wiki for stats..
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Old 03-13-2012, 10:15 PM
 
1,830 posts, read 3,121,832 times
Reputation: 532
The Jan 2012 employment numbers came out and it's interesting to see that MSP, Indy, Columbus and KC are recovering somewhat OK, aka the 'new economy' Midwest cities. The rest of the midwest not doing so well compared to 10 years ago.

This shows actual employment over last 10 years. All took a big hit around 2008 but the 'new economy' cities are recovering better than rest of midwest.

KC


MSP (inline with migration stats that shows MSP not quite gaining as much in-migration as KC/Indy/Col)


Indy (pretty much like KC pattern)


Columbus



The rest of the midwest is pretty much at or below job level 10 years ago...

STL


Chicago

Milwaukee


Cleveland


Cincy


Texas and DC are the hottest areas. California is in the dumpster, some as bad as Cleveland and Detroit.

See all cities here...
2012 metro employment comparisons over last 10 years
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Old 03-13-2012, 10:51 PM
 
Location: IN
20,238 posts, read 34,612,622 times
Reputation: 12585
Quote:
Originally Posted by xenokc View Post
The Jan 2012 employment numbers came out and it's interesting to see that MSP, Indy, Columbus and KC are recovering somewhat OK, aka the 'new economy' Midwest cities. The rest of the midwest not doing so well compared to 10 years ago.

This shows actual employment over last 10 years. All took a big hit around 2008 but the 'new economy' cities are recovering better than rest of midwest.

KC


MSP (inline with migration stats that shows MSP not quite gaining as much in-migration as KC/Indy/Col)


Indy (pretty much like KC pattern)


Columbus



The rest of the midwest is pretty much at or below job level 10 years ago...

STL


Chicago

Milwaukee


Cleveland


Cincy


Texas and DC are the hottest areas. California is in the dumpster, some as bad as Cleveland and Detroit.

See all cities here...
2012 metro employment comparisons over last 10 years
You are correct that the more diversified "new economy" cities in the Midwest are outperforming, but does this take into account population growth trends which tend to be quite a bit higher compared to other cities in the region? If that is factored in I would think most of the cities in the Midwest would be treading water the last 10 years.
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Old 03-14-2012, 09:16 AM
 
1,830 posts, read 3,121,832 times
Reputation: 532
Appears population follows jobs in most cases. The migration stats and the employment stats seem to go hand in hand, with job growth being the driving force. Indy, Col, KC and MSP are the Midwest cities with better than average job recovery and therefore have the positive population in-migration. At least most of the other MW cities have some improvement last couple years... they just have a deeper hole to come back from.

BTW, a friend of a friend works for the KC BLS office. He says the January numbers (reported by employers) are the most accurate as they are partly based on W2 form generation, but doesn't include self-employed. Jan also represents the most stable jobs as opposed to temp seasonal jobs. The rest of the months are estimates based on polls.
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Old 03-23-2012, 11:06 AM
 
1,830 posts, read 3,121,832 times
Reputation: 532
Cherry-picked stat alert. So it's interesting to see the Labor Force numbers compared to migration and employment across the Midwest - Labor Force is the number of people working or looking for job. Looks like as of Jan 2012, KC is leading the Midwest and has a labor force higher than ever for Jan. As expected, KC, Indy, MSP have relatively better Labor Force growth over 10 years than the rest of the Midwest. Is possible KC could be leading Midwest for in-migration growth lately as well.

Is curious that with positive in-migration and growing labor force, KC somehow has an unemployment rate that is better than US avg given the big job dump a few years ago.

KC


MSP


Columbus


Indy



STL


Chicago


Cincy


Cleveland


Detroit


Milwaukee

Last edited by xenokc; 03-23-2012 at 11:14 AM..
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Old 03-23-2012, 01:36 PM
 
1,830 posts, read 3,121,832 times
Reputation: 532
The Star reports KC had the best _improvement_ with unemployment rate in US over last year. Going from 9.3% unemployment to 7.2%, though there are a few others below 7%. US Avg is now 8.3%.

Kansas City Star : Great news for KC area jobs
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Old 03-24-2012, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
10,713 posts, read 18,581,602 times
Reputation: 5445
Seems like KC was hit particularly hard a few years agio with layoffs and I personally know several people that were laid off in kc and their unemployment finally ran out last year or in the last few months. So while they may be off the unemployment list, they are still unemployed or underemployed.

Those stats may be right, but I have to wonder if a lot of people in metro kc just rant out of benefits at once and caused a spike like this.
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