Kansas City vs Springfield (St. Louis, Republic: best town, neighborhood, universities)

[xenokc]

Not sure why the original source did it that way, but is interesting to see the difference.

[aragx6]

I'm not saying you'll be run through the streets by villagers with torches, but FWIW, if I were gay I would choose Kansas City over Springfield every day of the week. Springfield is still very conservative -- and proud of it. It's nothing like Boulder.

[MOKAN]

Originally Posted by Camerado

I have an opportunity to relocate for work to Kansas City, MO or Springfield, MO. I'm wondering what advantages the cities have over each other.

I visited Springfield last summer. I really like the place. It just gives me a good vibe. It's also a busy place, vibrant. The daytime population change is huge for such a small city. Plus there's a huge college-student population. Be prepared to drive in some crazy traffic while there if using the main thoroughfares.

The cost of living is cheap and there are some great deals in older and historic neighborhoods on houses. Even though there are hardly any minorities in Springfield (the place is 90% white) and no true ghettos, many folks in that town still treat older neighborhoods as such, which seems to be more of a class divide more than anything or just a distaste for older and historic housing. Generally, northwest Springfield is considered least desirable and is more hardcore working-class and poor than anything. It's a white ghetto, I guess. I was told the Grant Beach neighborhood north of downtown was "black", but I spent plenty of time driving through there as well as at the neighborhood's centerpiece, Grant Beach Park and Pool, and while there were black folks, it was a majority white experience. I guess if not for race, class has to be what is divisive.

My favorite part of the city of Springfield is the eastern side of downtown and the neighborhood of historic houses just east of downtown. There's a semi-urban, walkable neighborhood strip along National Ave just north of Missouri State University with a Chipotle, Panera, and other businesses. The area is centered around a historic district called "Walnut Street Historic District". Further west within walking distance, in actual downtown Springfield where I didn't get to spend any time, is a district of restaurants, bars, etc. which seem to be where younger and alternative people congregate. Downtown Springfield actually has an urban grocery store! www.bistromarket.net And for more general info on downtown Springfield: It's All Downtown - Springfield, MO

I'm not sure what else to say. Most of the suburban development in Springfield is located on the southeast side of town and is highly coveted by a certain set, just like with any town. They do have a great mall, Battlefield Mall. Macy's, Dillard's, JCPenney, Sears, Banana Republic, Express, Jos A Bank, Abecrombie etc. Battlefield Mall - Springfield, MO 65804 | Simon Malls

What Springfield has that Kansas City can't touch is natural surroundings, lack of ghetto, and more of a small-town environment.

[aragx6]

Springfield is not entirely safe from crime, however un-ghetto it might be perceived.

Crime stats available here: http://www.city-data.com/city/Springfield-Missouri.html -- in 2010 their crime rate was actually higher than Kansas City's. You'll also see, if you look through their stat page, Springfield has its fair share of problems -- nearly 1/4 of its residents live in poverty.

[CoffeeAndBeer]

My gut tells me that religious identity thing means little in the midwest, Catholics self identify even when they don't go to church, when they arent religious, etc. KC feels more "evangelical" than catholic - which is the only way "religion" should matter to someone sort of adverse to hardcore conservative religious dogma - than most of the midwest. It's not an issue if you live in the urban core, however, or that bad everywhere in the burbs. KC isnt Tulsa or Jackson, Mississippi.

The reason I feel this way is because in college all of the young christian types between st. louis and kansas city were always from kansas city (metro). This was completely foreign culture to me - christian metal bands? Christian alternative youth culture?

[xenokc]

I would agree that KC has less evangelical slant than the South and more 'contemp Christian' thing than STL, however I run into more KC people who have no religious identity at all (myself included) than in STL, which the stats support.

NYC has to be the most religious city I've been even though not the evangelical type, and I'm not talking the immigrants.

[CoffeeAndBeer]

Originally Posted by xenokc

I would agree that KC has less evangelical slant than the South and more 'contemp Christian' thing than STL, however I run into more KC people who have no religious identity at all (myself included) than in STL, which the stats support.

NYC has to be the most religious city I've been even though not the evangelical type, and I'm not talking the immigrants.

I'd agree-ish. Generally speaking, personally I am neutral to favorable on neighborhood urban/urbanish Catholic culture, though. I attend parish events, and get drunk with my neighbors. My significant other is Catholic, along with all of my St. Louis friends and friend-neighbors. They loosely are in and out of the orbit of the parish, they even grew up going to the same tavern on sunday after church, and there is a church "tag" scratched on the wall of the mensroom there. It all works for me, so I have no reason to complain. Personally I'm agnostic.

St. Paul and other areas of the midwest are like that, too. Yeah, it's a little parochial at times but is a layer of stability and cohesion for some neighborhoods.

Suburban megachurches, on the other hand. The bleached teeth and $$$ A/V equipment? No thanks. Seems like that's where Springfield excels. It's below the White SUV+JesusFish line. Here in St. Louis we have the Black SUV + Parochial School Sticker. Hahah. I don't know which is worse.

I'm sure suburban KC has something equivalent. A KU front licence plate plaque bearing down in your rear view mirror?

But seriously, Springfield is on a completely different level. I don't think it's very easy to avoid somewhat forceful discussion of your religious beliefs, there.

[MOKAN]

Originally Posted by CoffeeAndBeer

I'd agree-ish. Generally speaking, personally I am neutral to favorable on neighborhood urban/urbanish Catholic culture, though. I attend parish events, and get drunk with my neighbors. My significant other is Catholic, along with all of my St. Louis friends and friend-neighbors. They loosely are in and out of the orbit of the parish, they even grew up going to the same tavern on sunday after church, and there is a church "tag" scratched on the wall of the mensroom there. It all works for me, so I have no reason to complain. Personally I'm agnostic.

St. Paul and other areas of the midwest are like that, too. Yeah, it's a little parochial at times but is a layer of stability and cohesion for some neighborhoods.

What you describe is interesting. There's some of that going on in inner KCK and KCMO. Although, I tend to have a difficult time distinguishing between what you describe as urban/urbanish Catholic neighborhood culture and just classic working-class/blue-collar culture. At any rate, many of the neighborhoods in our cities that have held on the longest are a direct result of this culture you describe because of neighborhood loyalty, alliance, parochial schools, etc. St. Peter and Arickaree stand out in my mind as major examples (KC neighborhoods surrounding the St. Peter Cathedral and other Catholic institutions).

That said, I just realized this is the Springfield-KC comparison thread. On that subject, Springfield is certainly more "evangelical" than KC. KC is very Catholic, Jewish, Lutheran, etc., but having a large black population and being near-south, we certainly have a major evangelical presence. But we simply are more diverse, including historically, than places like Springfield or Tulsa.

[CoffeeAndBeer]

Originally Posted by MOKAN

What you describe is interesting. There's some of that going on in inner KCK and KCMO. Although, I tend to have a difficult time distinguishing between what you describe as urban/urbanish Catholic neighborhood culture and just classic working-class/blue-collar culture.

Primarily the "old school" Catholic culture left in urban St. Louis is middle class, not working class catholic or urban blue collar/white lower class - that segment mostly fled the city in the 90s on the southside. You know, some might be referred to as hoosiers. Since I don't want to hijack the thread any worse than I have I won't give a geographical breakdown or list of parishes...

I kind of forgot that there is that small urban/soccer/catholic presence in KC.

[MOKAN]

Originally Posted by CoffeeAndBeer

Primarily the "old school" Catholic culture left in urban St. Louis is middle class, not working class catholic or urban blue collar/white lower class - that segment mostly fled the city in the 90s on the southside. You know, some might be referred to as hoosiers. Since I don't want to hijack the thread any worse than I have I won't give a geographical breakdown or list of parishes...

I kind of forgot that there is that small urban/soccer/catholic presence in KC.

While small in KC, it sounds like the urban Catholic culture is more pronounced in STL. It's hard to imagine what our inner cities would look like had it not been for Catholics.