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Old 03-14-2012, 08:41 AM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
3,572 posts, read 6,195,578 times
Reputation: 2549

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Quote:
Originally Posted by westender View Post
That is true, that housing expectations and family structures have changed. But I'd note, the suburban districts to which many of the former residents of Kansas City neighborhoods like Blue Hills moved, were similar in residential style: the ranch homes of Prairie Village and northern Overland Park, the bungalows of Raytown.

I believe the primary cause of the middle class departure from the East Side of Kansas City was the KCM school district. The neighborhoods in Center school district (also in Kansas City proper) held together much longer.
I agree. And yes, I do believe the small 50s ranch was the (usually less attractive) replacement for the bungalow. A lot of areas with those houses have become suburban ghetto though, at least outside NE JoCo. Ruskin, Bannister and mid-KCK being the worst examples.

I'll also add that beside the fact the wealthy can afford private schools, I think indifference plays a major role in the Plaza-through-Waldo set's ability to continue to exist in the urban core. They're just so worlds apart they tend to not intermix with those worst off socio-economically. Whereas those inbetween that would find smaller houses acceptable wouldn't have that sort of strong indifference to shield them from the social issues in the city, and this is especially true for people with kids. They don't want their kids influenced by the worst off. Part of choosing schools and neighborhoods is choosing where your kids will be socialized. And people are just plain racist, even if it is latent.

Last edited by MOKAN; 03-14-2012 at 08:50 AM..
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Old 03-14-2012, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Florida and New England
1,101 posts, read 1,304,160 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
Love your knowledge of the KC area (your post about the Mission Mall brings back memories). What part of KC did you grow up? I was just talking to my dad about the east midtown area of KC, he grew up on Swope Parkway in a big catholic family. His parents stayed as long as they could in that giant home. So many memories there. I think they were the last original white family in like a ten block area to leave actually (late 90's). I think it's now apartments and pretty ghetto looking last time I drove by.

My other grandparents (who also had a big family) lived south of the plaza passed, but they lived in their huge home on 53rd all the way through and now it's owned by other relatives that have probably put 500k into the home. They now rent out the top floor to UMKC students.

It's incredible how different these two areas are today, yet how similar they were in the 40's and 50's.
Thanks for the comments. JC Nichols purposefully imitated some of the better, older residential neighborhoods when he built out the Country Club and Brookside districts in the 1920s-1940s, referencing elements from neighborhoods like Valentine, Volker, and Swope Pkwy.

The split in KC (however it's perceived, whether along Troost, or 39/63 north and south, or what have you) between surviving neighborhoods, and vacated neighborhoods, is an astonishing thing. I've noted elsewhere on these boards that it happened quickly and not that long ago (between 1965 and 1975).

Had Kansas City reacted more adroitly, it might have been able to stabilize sooner than now. But the city dawdled in the core neighborhoods throughout the 1970s-1990s (or invested in unrelated urban renewal projects like Crown Center or the Northland and its airport), and this is the period when Johnson County really built out. As recently as 1980, 103d street and Antioch was the outer limits of JoCo.
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Old 03-14-2012, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
10,705 posts, read 18,488,746 times
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I'm not so sure it was just the KCMOSD. From what my father has said, it was the race riots and racial tensions leading up to the riots that really opened the flood gates for the whites to flee, which ultimately led to the failing of the schools.

While he grew up in the area and got along with the blacks that were moving into the area, they were all attacked during the riots on their own property. They stayed in the city after things cooled off, but most whites that were left fled.

I'm sure it all goes hand and hand though. (demographic changes, white flight and declining schools).
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Old 03-14-2012, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Middle America
35,817 posts, read 39,334,463 times
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The "Is the school district poorly performing due to the cultural demographics of the area, or are the cultural demographics of the area due to the poorly performing school districts?" question is the same chicken/egg argument that plagues most blighted urban areas with bad schools.
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Old 04-03-2012, 10:26 PM
 
53 posts, read 52,456 times
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my sisters moving back in town from outside of b-more,md....she had me check on a house located at 48th n brooklyn,,,,a mere stones throw from rockhurst....it was trashed, i hadnt been over there in much length and i drove around the area,,,,there are some niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice homes,brookside style homes.... but the quality of live just wasnt there,altho i do say there some pioneers that i saw that move in there from diff races other than black,but it was a solidly black hood,not sure if it was a stable, like people living there for decades thing or not
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Old 04-04-2012, 12:13 AM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
3,572 posts, read 6,195,578 times
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According to the NY Time's Mapping the Census, Blue Hills as well as every other census tract between Troost and 71 and Brush Creek and 63rd is actually gaining whites and hemorrhaging blacks. The tract from Woodland to Prospect, Brush Creek to 55th, saw +53% in whites, +55% in Hispanics, and -30% in blacks, the latter being the most significant being that blacks make up 90% of the census tract. The tract between Troost and encompassing Paseo, between 55th and 63rd, saw +54% in whites, -19% in blacks, leaving blacks at 82% of the census tract. Most other areas south of Brush Creek seem to be hemorrhaging both blacks and whites, but blacks at much higher percentages. Two tracts abutting Swope Park saw huge percentile increases in whites as well. 63rd to Gregory, Paseo to Swope Park, saw +17% for whites, -21% for blacks. Just to the south, between roughly Gregory and 75th, Paseo and Swope Park, saw +36% for whites, -6% for blacks. On the flipside, blacks are moving WEST of Troost south of Waldo, especially in Santa Fe Hills, which saw +96% in blacks and -20% in whites.

Interesting statistics, in the least. I hope they're real signs of neighborhoods east of Troost becoming diversified and hopefully vibrant again. While the high percentages of whites moving in is not significant in raw numbers, it still says something big, I think. I've always thought the neighborhoods south of Brush Creek and east of Troost need saving and even feel it's quite possible. Like I said earlier in this thread, many areas are well intact and not all that bad looking. Plus Brookside is nearby, as is Swope Park, and the 63rd St corridor is not bad at all and is relatively vibrant. I really really wish Trader Joe's could have gone to the Landing as part of a redevelopment there. Imagine the Target and Trader Joe's at the Landing!

To check out the NY Time's Mapping the Census, go here: Mapping the 2010 U.S. Census - NYTimes.com

Edit: Looking further and more surprisingly, there are several tracts north of Brush Creek and east of Troost that are gaining whites as well! These include a couple directly east of Central Hyde Park, Beacon Hill, and generally east of downtown all the way to Prospect. Some of the WORST areas of the city are gaining significant amounts of whites, according to this. That seems kind of weird to me. If it's true, that great, but it just seems odd.

Last edited by MOKAN; 04-04-2012 at 12:25 AM..
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Old 04-04-2012, 08:05 AM
 
Location: IN
20,168 posts, read 34,473,831 times
Reputation: 12507
Quote:
Originally Posted by westender View Post
Thanks for the comments. JC Nichols purposefully imitated some of the better, older residential neighborhoods when he built out the Country Club and Brookside districts in the 1920s-1940s, referencing elements from neighborhoods like Valentine, Volker, and Swope Pkwy.

The split in KC (however it's perceived, whether along Troost, or 39/63 north and south, or what have you) between surviving neighborhoods, and vacated neighborhoods, is an astonishing thing. I've noted elsewhere on these boards that it happened quickly and not that long ago (between 1965 and 1975).

Had Kansas City reacted more adroitly, it might have been able to stabilize sooner than now. But the city dawdled in the core neighborhoods throughout the 1970s-1990s (or invested in unrelated urban renewal projects like Crown Center or the Northland and its airport), and this is the period when Johnson County really built out. As recently as 1980, 103d street and Antioch was the outer limits of JoCo.
That isn't the case. Some of the neighborhoods south of 103 and Antioch were built in the 1960s. The real JOCO sprawl took off by the late 1980s south of College Blvd so I do generally agree with that.
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Old 04-04-2012, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Tower Grove East, St. Louis, MO
12,064 posts, read 27,204,220 times
Reputation: 3739
Quote:
Originally Posted by MOKAN View Post
According to the NY Time's Mapping the Census, Blue Hills as well as every other census tract between Troost and 71 and Brush Creek and 63rd is actually gaining whites and hemorrhaging blacks. The tract from Woodland to Prospect, Brush Creek to 55th, saw +53% in whites, +55% in Hispanics, and -30% in blacks, the latter being the most significant being that blacks make up 90% of the census tract. The tract between Troost and encompassing Paseo, between 55th and 63rd, saw +54% in whites, -19% in blacks, leaving blacks at 82% of the census tract. Most other areas south of Brush Creek seem to be hemorrhaging both blacks and whites, but blacks at much higher percentages. Two tracts abutting Swope Park saw huge percentile increases in whites as well. 63rd to Gregory, Paseo to Swope Park, saw +17% for whites, -21% for blacks. Just to the south, between roughly Gregory and 75th, Paseo and Swope Park, saw +36% for whites, -6% for blacks. On the flipside, blacks are moving WEST of Troost south of Waldo, especially in Santa Fe Hills, which saw +96% in blacks and -20% in whites.

Interesting statistics, in the least. I hope they're real signs of neighborhoods east of Troost becoming diversified and hopefully vibrant again. While the high percentages of whites moving in is not significant in raw numbers, it still says something big, I think. I've always thought the neighborhoods south of Brush Creek and east of Troost need saving and even feel it's quite possible. Like I said earlier in this thread, many areas are well intact and not all that bad looking. Plus Brookside is nearby, as is Swope Park, and the 63rd St corridor is not bad at all and is relatively vibrant. I really really wish Trader Joe's could have gone to the Landing as part of a redevelopment there. Imagine the Target and Trader Joe's at the Landing!

To check out the NY Time's Mapping the Census, go here: Mapping the 2010 U.S. Census - NYTimes.com

Edit: Looking further and more surprisingly, there are several tracts north of Brush Creek and east of Troost that are gaining whites as well! These include a couple directly east of Central Hyde Park, Beacon Hill, and generally east of downtown all the way to Prospect. Some of the WORST areas of the city are gaining significant amounts of whites, according to this. That seems kind of weird to me. If it's true, that great, but it just seems odd.
That's because the census designations for white can include hispanics. Hispanic isn't a race -- there are black and white hispanics -- and most of them answer white because they're not anything else.
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Old 04-04-2012, 04:02 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
3,572 posts, read 6,195,578 times
Reputation: 2549
Quote:
Originally Posted by aragx6 View Post
That's because the census designations for white can include hispanics. Hispanic isn't a race -- there are black and white hispanics -- and most of them answer white because they're not anything else.
You think so? Doesn't the census distinguish between Hispanic (of any race) and what we more typically think of as white? I'm not sure Hispanics have any reason for marking "white - non-hispanic". Am I missing something?

Hispanics are certainly breaking up areas of extreme black segregation though all over the city. I can clearly see this in KCK, where I'm from (in person, but also reflected in the stats). They're moving north at full speed into once strictly black territory. It won't be long and they'll have opened storefronts along Quindaro, if they haven't already. They chose old working-class white areas first, and sort of gentrified them driving up prices because of demand, and now are going into black neighborhoods for steals on houses. From experience on the ground, I know that it's common for a group of Hispanics to pool resources and buy cheap houses with cash.
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Old 04-04-2012, 09:02 PM
 
53 posts, read 52,456 times
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^^ i have to concur with MOkAN...

i live around south troost n all over troost there are signs of whites moving in, riding bikes, etc,etc... maybe were getting rid of the racial divide n becoming a whole city...

it would be a trip to see latino store fronts along quindaro boulevard,but there are a great number of hispanics in that section, i was actually walking down waverly avenue last summer,theres spots of diversity in NEKCK, some hispanics,blacks n a few whites, i see a couple of white kids every now and then north of parallel, east of 10th st...........

i mean, the houses are still good mainly, just its been shelled out over decades, finally rebounding a lil bitt
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