What's with people here? (Kansas City, St. Louis: unemployed, good schools, college)

[luzianne]

Originally Posted by Okey Dokie

Although this an offshoot topic from the original post, here's my theory: Back when I was at KU - and that was MANY years ago - we mostly kept our dorm rooms open when we were in our rooms. There was a lot of visiting back and forth on the whole wing. Today, they have been put automatic closers on the doors (a building code deal, I'm sure) so nobody ever has their door open. Less socializing. Simple as that.

I think central air has done the same thing, in effect - and everywhere, not just Kansas City. People used to sit outside on their porches in the summer and socialize with neighbors. Now everyone wants to stay inside in the air conditioning. I have never liked air conditioning much. Oh, I certainly appreciate it on the hot, humid days. But weather like we've had the last week with temperatures in the 70s to low 80s? People actually close up their houses and turn in the air conditioner. They also roll up their car windows and turn on the air conditioner. It seems like as soon as the weather starts to warm up, everyone turns on their air and hides from the outside world. Not sure that heat in the winter is the same - I assume even in the "old days" before central heat people tried to stay inside and stay warm in the winter.

I'm sure there are other factors too, but I think that plays a big part in people not getting to know their neighbors.

It also just depends on personality. My husband never met a stranger and talks to everyone everywhere. He introduced himself to, and befriended, every one of our neighbors. I'm more reserved than he is and if not for him, I probably would not know all my neighbors.

A lot of the people I know are people who have things in common with me - like our kids went to school together or played sports together or were friends. We actually have lots of friends in that category and even though our kids are grown now, we remain friends with the parents. Also friends from work. Sometimes it is hard to get people together, but in my case it's because everyone is married and has a spouse, children, other obligations - which I understand is different than younger, unmarried people trying to get a group together to party.

I didn't graduate from high school in KC (although I did go to SM schools through middle school), but once I graduated from high school I never looked back. I actually graduated from a high school in a small town and I'm amazed that 35 years later a lot of those people are still in the same old town, with the same old friend, same old job, talking about the same old things. I don't even go to reunions because it's just depressing. But I never saw KC as being that way at all.

[jason87x]

Semi off topic (though not really), I did in fact roll down my windows (still have been) in this nice weather, but it gets depressing because all I hear from other people's cars is rap and country. What ever happened to everything else musically in KC? Also, I only use AC when absolutely necessary. I avoid it as much as possible. There have been summers here where I only used the car AC for one week.

I didn't mean to stress the high school topic in my original post or whatever, but I have a feeling I work with a couple people I went to high school with on the same floor. Since they were boring then, and still seem to be boring now, I haven't really bothered.

My interests are also changing, as am I. Extreme low carb dieting plus working out means I have lost a lot of belly fat.

I also can't help but notice how whichever team is winning the Super Bowl or whatever, everyone's acts like they were always a fan. Just like everyone says they are Irish on St. Patty's.

[s.davis]

Originally Posted by kcmo

exactly!
One things is for sure. Racial tensions are not near as messed up. While central Balt is very much like kcmo, the rest of the region is very integrated, something that really does not even exist in metro KC.

False.

The 22 Most Segregated Cities In America

[kcmo]

Originally Posted by s.davis

False.

The 22 Most Segregated Cities In America

When I said integrated, I meant it's not all white. I guess I should have said more diverse. All metro areas are segregated out when it comes to general black vs white areas. The area we live in is huge mix of all races. When you go to the malls etc, whites are like half or less of the races. Now I don't get over to N VA too often, and that area would probably remind me more of the KC area's suburbs, but even Tysons Corner etc seems to have a much more diverse crowd than what you would find at Oak Park or Zona Rosa. Some of the malls nearest to us have like 60-75% black shoppers. History has shown that whites will avoid shopping centers in KC if too many blacks start shopping there. If that were the case here, there would be no place to shop.

However, I see a LOT more professional african americans here. While KC has a sizable black population, you hardly ever see them in white collar parts of the city except at the bus stops etc. Here you are just as likely to see a black soccer mom driving an SUV as a white one. That's just not the case in metro KC.

My wife taught in the KCMO SD for many years and she tells me the racial tensions in KC compared to around this area are night and day. While parts of Baltimore City and the District are similar to KCMO, she says there is more reverse racism in KCMO and the inner ring suburbs here are very diverse and people get along a lot better, (the exception being western PG County). She now teaches in an area comparable to Raytown near Baltimore.

I have a mixed race (black skinned) cousin that lives in Boston and she would never live in a midwestern city because of racial tensions from both blacks and whites and the general lack of professional blacks who tend to flee the midwest for places like DC and Atlanta.

It's just different and maps and stats don't always tell the entire story.

Can anybody back me up here? Can anybody else compare a midwestern city to a coastal city when it comes to this?

[xenokc]

Friends of various races who have lived other places don't have issues in KC. There is some racial/economic disparity that is noticeable but is still below US avg.

My sister is in Human Resources in LA and has worked for a few large companies. She talks about the problems with racial consciousness there that is nothing like the Midwest. Race is a constant HR issue there.

Am often in Georgia through N/C Florida and often see bumper stickers with a black person with a circled slash stamped over. Is astounding, nothing like that in the Midwest.

A Latino friend who grew up in CO/Denver area would often be hassled by white kids, telling her to go back where she came from. Oddly she's part Native American. She married a gringo and has a kid - they live in KC now and they have no issues here compared to CO.

It's all anecdotal and I could post lots of stats that show KC is way below avg with racial issues but apparently anecdotal comments carries more weight on this site. When looking at hate group activity, KC is way below average.

I'll post one 'random' stat, this is black/white racial disparity. A higher % of blacks (vs whites) in DC are in poverty than in KC...

Disparity in black to white poverty rates...
1 Minneapolis 5.4
2 Salt Lake City 5.1
3 Milwaukee 4.9
4 Chicago 4.4
5 Denver 4.1
6 Cleveland 3.9
7 Pittsburgh 3.8
8 Philadelphia 3.7
9 San Francisco 3.5
10 Washington D.C. 3.5
11 St. Louis 3.4
12 Detroit 3.3
13 Memphis 3.3
14 Dallas 3.3
US Average 3.2
15 Boston 3.1
16 Baltimore 3.1
17 Seattle 3.1
18 Houston 3.0
19 Indianapolis 3.0
20 Cincinnati 3.0
21 Louisville 2.9
22 Kansas City 2.9
23 New York 2.9
24 Miami 2.8
25 Oklahoma City 2.7
26 Atlanta 2.7
27 San Antonio 2.7
28 Phoenix 2.6
29 Columbus 2.5
30 Los Angeles 2.4
31 Charlotte 2.4
32 Nashville 2.3
33 Austin 2.2
34 Portland 2.1
35 San Diego 2.0

[RjRobb2]

Originally Posted by jason87x

Semi off topic (though not really), I did in fact roll down my windows (still have been) in this nice weather, but it gets depressing because all I hear from other people's cars is rap and country. What ever happened to everything else musically in KC?

Kansas City and Lawrence actually have a very diverse and nationally recognized music scene. There are a lot of good things going on in music in the area and I have several friends really getting recognized and starting to get stuff out there because people are really noticing KC and Lawrence. With the emergence of the Sprint Center as a Top 10 World concert venue, the rise of smaller venues like the Crossroads and Midland, we have tons of acts coming through the city that wouldnt have ever stopped before.

The problem is that a majority of people use the radio and TV to tell them what they should be listening too when most good music isnt played on the radio or on TV. You have to dig to find it.

[xenokc]

KC/Lawrence area had significant local band representation at SxSW despite it lately being overrun by those already signed. Not sure where the 'country/rap' comment comes from. There's very little country (some rap) coming out of KC area compared to other genres.

[Versatile]

Originally Posted by GraniteStater

I grew up in suburban JOCO so I can't really refute any of my statements, but it did apply to my neighborhood. It might not be representative of other suburban areas, but the anti-social mentality was very strong there. Zero diversity, but that has changed substantially since the 1980s. I only knew a few people and everyone else kept to themselves. Maybe this is the norm for suburban areas these days?
I think big differences exist if you compare master planned suburbs with HOAs and cul-de-sacs vs suburbs with an entact village or downtown area with most roads on a grided network. I think the connectivity of the roads lead to more social interaction. That would be a topic for a different thread, though. This is why I like Prairie Village and old Leawood in JOCO because it fits more along the lines of the later.

When you grow up in a Johnson county suburb; then you don't know squat about the people of KCMO! IMO Your thoughts must be jaded by your experience of living beside people that have always known they are better than anyone from KCMO. Johnson county people even define who is better on their side as well. Anyone south of about 75th st is better than anyone north of there. Anyone south of 119th st or so is better than those north of there. And last but not least those living south of 119th are the best or so they say.
I am born and raised in KCMO and i did live in Joco for awhile(9 yrs) and experienced what i just posted.

All this claptrap about KCMO is from those not from here AND IMO; THEY SEEM TO HAVE PROBLEMS ANY WHERE THEY GO!. Probably best you moved away. It does confuse me why those same people keep coming to his forum to dis KCMO

[s.davis]

When I said integrated, I meant it's not all white. I guess I should have said more diverse. All metro areas are segregated out when it comes to general black vs white areas. The area we live in is huge mix of all races. When you go to the malls etc, whites are like half or less of the races. Now I don't get over to N VA too often, and that area would probably remind me more of the KC area's suburbs, but even Tysons Corner etc seems to have a much more diverse crowd than what you would find at Oak Park or Zona Rosa. Some of the malls nearest to us have like 60-75% black shoppers. History has shown that whites will avoid shopping centers in KC if too many blacks start shopping there. If that were the case here, there would be no place to shop.

However, I see a LOT more professional african americans here. While KC has a sizable black population, you hardly ever see them in white collar parts of the city except at the bus stops etc. Here you are just as likely to see a black soccer mom driving an SUV as a white one. That's just not the case in metro KC.

My wife taught in the KCMO SD for many years and she tells me the racial tensions in KC compared to around this area are night and day. While parts of Baltimore City and the District are similar to KCMO, she says there is more reverse racism in KCMO and the inner ring suburbs here are very diverse and people get along a lot better, (the exception being western PG County). She now teaches in an area comparable to Raytown near Baltimore.

I have a mixed race (black skinned) cousin that lives in Boston and she would never live in a midwestern city because of racial tensions from both blacks and whites and the general lack of professional blacks who tend to flee the midwest for places like DC and Atlanta.

It's just different and maps and stats don't always tell the entire story.

Can anybody back me up here? Can anybody else compare a midwestern city to a coastal city when it comes to this?

We're pretty far off topic, but I'll certainly grant that Atlanta and DC have both more black people and a higher percentage of black people, as well as higher numbers and percentages of "non-white" people. Atlanta is pretty well documented for the size and presence of its black professional class, and I assume DC has a relatively large black professional class as well.

I, personally, see black, hispanic, mixed-raced, and non-white people in KC's public spaces all the time, including in parts of town that are very heavily white, like Loose Park, the Plaza, suburban shopping malls, etc. This is especially noteworthy given the make-up of the KC metro area as a whole, which is certainly whiter than most east coast and southern cities. I also seem to notice significantly more white people in KC's ghetto than I see when I am in ghettos elsewhere. But those observations are no more valid than yours. That's why I defer to data collected by people who study demographics for a living whenever this subject comes up. And the data suggest that KC is not particularly segregated or racially divided.

Racial animosity or tension is a different question and not one that can be as easily quantified. I have witnessed shocking demonstrations of racism all over this country and many others. But that racism comes in different forms, and I think it's pretty disingenous to suggest that certain regions are more or less "racist" than others, in anything but the broadest sense.

I have never heard as many casual, openly racist comments than I hear in southwest Brooklyn, except on one trip I took to Charleston, SC. But I don't think that makes those places more racist than, say, Portland (which I think is a very subtly but very racist city), despite the fact that the population of Portland is unarguably among the most politically correct populations in the country, and I suspect the Brooklynites I was around would be ostracized just about anywhere in Portland if they talked the way I heard them talk. That said, they live in Brooklyn, one of the most diverse places in America, and the Portlanders live in a what is basically a playland for white people of privilege.

That your relative lives in Boston is interesting, since it consistently ranks as one of the whitest major cities in America, and while I cannot speak to the veracity of its reputation, it is often trotted out as one of the most "racist" cities in America (likely due to the dominance of it's working class by traditionally enclavey white ethnicities).

So who's "more racist"? Is action or speech more important in determining racism? Is who who live around? Or who you interact with? Or who you work around? Or who you date? Or what? I've been in some ghettos in DC whose very existence struck me as racist to an almost criminal degree and whose conditions were significantly worse than anything you could find in KC. Which isn't to say KC is some kind of racial paradise, or that DC is "more racist", just that there some room for perspective and nuance in the discussion.

I think people perpetuate a lot of myths about racism and region in America (like "I would never live in the midwest, because its too racist"), without investigating the facts.

[Versatile]

A Grandview cop on this forum eluded to racism in Grandview irrc and it was Hispanic vs Black. IRRC it was a couple years ago.