View Poll Results: What city is most similar to KC
Cinncinati
18 25.00%
Columbus
6 8.33%
Des Moines
3 4.17%
Indianapolis
8 11.11%
Milwaukee
4 5.56%
Omaha
8 11.11%
Oklahoma City
2 2.78%
Other City (not listed)
8 11.11%
St. Louis
9 12.50%
Tulsa
4 5.56%
Wichita
2 2.78%
08-03-2012, 02:22 PM
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Reputation: 1922
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MOKAN
I don't believe this. When looking at raw numbers, STL has a higher number of murders year after year. STL also fell harder than KC with the fall of industry, creating more dire social woes, of which its murder rate is reflective. Both cities have horrible crime and social conditions, but STL takes the lead and is arguably more dangerous.
Sorry, I'm about to hit you with a ton of numbers.
In raw numbers they weren't far off last year....
2011
STL-
113
KC-
114
2010
STL-
144
KC-
106
But of course, you have to factor in that KC has a larger population. So last year, KC's homicide rate was 25 per 100,000, compared to 35 for STL.
But what I'm saying is why compare STL by itself to KC when STL is almost completely an urban core whereas KC is an urban core plus suburbs plus rural areas. In fact, KC's population density is even less than that of St. Louis city+county. So if you compare the homicide rate of St. Louis city+county (and hell, I'll even throw in E.STL since there's a lot of crime there) then you'll see that STL had a lower homicide rate in 2011 than KC.
Homicides 2011
STL City-
113
STL County-
17
E.STL-
28 (this is an estimate, because I could only find the number up til Nov 22, which was 25)
The number of homicides for the three was 158. The total population was 1,344,000. So the homicide rate was about 12 per 100,000 compared to KC's 25. Even if you take that 158 and divide it by just
half of 1,344,000, the homicide rate still wouldn't equal up to KC's 25 per 100,000.
And even though STL had a lower than usual crime rate that year and KC had a higher than usual crime rate, if you do the same thing, but compare 2010 numbers (a more "normal" year for crime), then the homicide rate was 14 for STL and 23 for KC.
So my point is, you're comparing a city with its original city limits to a city that has annexed into surrounding areas. I'm sure if you compare KC's original city limits to STL city, then the crime rate would be nearly equal.
Last edited by Smtchll; 08-03-2012 at 02:31 PM ..
08-03-2012, 02:44 PM
Location: Tower Grove East, St. Louis, MO
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^I think I'm going to print this post off and carry it around in my wallet to pull out and win an argument when needed.
08-03-2012, 03:05 PM
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^ haha thanks. Unfortunately, no matter how many times we try to explain it, people are still gonna say that STL is more dangerous than KC. Hopefully I explained it clearly enough this time
08-03-2012, 04:58 PM
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Smtchll
Sorry, I'm about to hit you with a ton of numbers.
I looked at a spread of years, not just one year like you, to see that STL has more murders. I don't put so much stock into the "most dangerous city" lists. Raw homicide numbers don't lie. If we were arguing which city was more rustbelt, STL would be correctly argued so, and I think that fact alone tells the story.
08-03-2012, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
MOKAN
I looked at a spread of years, not just one year like you, to see that STL has more murders. I don't put so much stock into the "most dangerous city" lists. Raw homicide numbers don't lie. If we were arguing which city was more rustbelt, STL would be correctly argued so, and I think that fact alone tells the story.
Why are you just looking at the raw numbers and not the population and area? Homicide rate means a lot more than just raw numbers. I mean Chicago has more murders than East St. Louis by raw numbers, but what about homicide rate....
KC is 314 sq miles, STL is 62. If you took the population of 314 sq miles of STL and the areas immediately surrounding it, it would have a population of at
least 800,000. If we assume that all 158 homicides in STL, STL County, and East STL took place within that 314 sq miles, then there would be a homicide rate of 20, compared to 25 for KC (2011). In 2010, the rate was 23 for STL & 23 for KC. In 2009, the rate was 25 for STL & 22 for KC. So that's 3 years, and STL's rate has been decreasing while KC's has been increasing. By comparing 314 sq miles to 314 sq miles, we get a more accurate comparison, and you see that KC & STL have about the same homicide rate. If you extend it further out and include all of STL County, then the rate drops even lower. I don't think it's wrong to include STL County because it's as densely populated as KC.
And the reason why I cant go further back in years is because it's hard to find numbers for STL County before 2009. Everything else was easy to find
Info came from City-data pages for KC, STL, East STL, and
here
08-03-2012, 07:08 PM
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Smtchll
Why are you just looking at the raw numbers and not the population and area? Homicide rate means a lot more than just raw numbers. I mean Chicago has more murders than East St. Louis by raw numbers, but what about homicide rate....
KC is 314 sq miles, STL is 62. If you took the population of 314 sq miles of STL and the areas immediately surrounding it, it would have a population of at
least 800,000. If we assume that all 158 homicides in STL, STL County, and East STL took place within that 314 sq miles, then there would be a homicide rate of 20, compared to 25 for KC (2011). In 2010, the rate was 23 for STL & 23 for KC. In 2009, the rate was 25 for STL & 22 for KC. So that's 3 years, and STL's rate has been decreasing while KC's has been increasing. By comparing 314 sq miles to 314 sq miles, we get a more accurate comparison, and you see that KC & STL have about the same homicide rate. If you extend it further out and include all of STL County, then the rate drops even lower. I don't think it's wrong to include STL County because it's as densely populated as KC.
And the reason why I cant go further back in years is because it's hard to find numbers for STL County before 2009. Everything else was easy to find
Info came from City-data pages for KC, STL, East STL, and
here
Homicide rates fluctuate wildly. I wouldn't count on any real short-term downward trend. It's not a trend at all. It's coincidence. Short of locking potential murderers up and keeping them there for less-serious crimes, nobody controls when emotionally-retarded individuals get and carry out the urge to kill.
08-03-2012, 07:42 PM
Location: Boilermaker Territory
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
stlouisan
KC doesn't feel southern at all, and I've been to most major cities in the Midwest. It feels very much like a Midwest city....not Sunbelt whatsoever. It is very similar to Indy, Columbus, and Omaha. And it doesn't really feel THAT different from St. Louis. Have made plenty of daytrips across the state there.
Yes, KCMO core compares to most Midwest cities, but JOCO has a definite Sunbelt feel overall, particularly newly developed parts of the county in the past 20 years. It feels very Plano like to me.
08-03-2012, 10:00 PM
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
kcmo
You get into parts of southern johnson county, and it does feel very sun belty, nothing like the burbs of most large cities east of KC. Those areas remind me more of some suburbs of Denver or Phoenix than anything east of KC, but most of metro KC is not like that. I agree that KC is not southern at all, however KCK is kinda southern in a way.
Sun belty? How? As far as Denver goes, I would hardly call Denver the Sunbelt. FYI, the Sunbelt is not entirely the South either...it's parts of the southwest, etc. I've been to southern Johnson County...it doesn't feel completely foreign compared to the rest of Kansas City.
08-03-2012, 10:01 PM
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
GraniteStater
Yes, KCMO core compares to most Midwest cities, but JOCO has a definite Sunbelt feel overall, particularly newly developed parts of the county in the past 20 years. It feels very Plano like to me.
I'd have to disagree. No parts of Kansas City remind me of any parts of Dallas.
08-03-2012, 10:29 PM
Location: Boilermaker Territory
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
stlouisan
I'd have to disagree. No parts of Kansas City remind me of any parts of Dallas.
Really? How are large parts of Olathe or southern Overland Park any different than many areas of suburban Dallas? The only difference might be a few more trees. Both the north suburbs of Dallas and JOCO have an extremely conformist built environment, a very corporate culture, new money, a propensity toward flashiness and big spending, and steady migration flows between the two places. Yes, both places have sunny and mild climates compared to just about any place in the Midwest.
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People in Group quarters - Nursing homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)
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