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Old 09-10-2012, 01:53 PM
 
29,988 posts, read 35,855,551 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
Nice post, but why call Grandview "ghetto"? Parts may be a bit run down, but is there any part of Grandview that could be considered ghetto or even slightly ghetto which is a really harsh word.

I only say that because Grandview has really done a lot to try to improve its image, which is very similar to the image of Raytown , both unwarranted for the most part. South KC (Ruskin/hickman mills etc) has some major issues, but Grandview and Raytown both have always been just modest blue collar suburbs with good people that just canít afford or donít want to live in places like Leeís Summit or Overland Park. When people throw around labels like ghetto for an area, I donít think they realize how much harm that does.

All that sprawl in Belton and Raymore could and should be in any of the empty land around Grandview, but instead, people move to Cass County to be buffered from the ghetto of Grandview and in ten years, they will do the same by migrating to the little towns further south to avoid those areas that are becoming slightly ghetto in Raymore/Belton which are fine till everybody leaves and new stores open at 198th and 71 and the stores at 58 close up.

Itís never ending. Sorry about the rant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MOKAN View Post
^I totally agree and am breaking my own rule by calling Grandview ghetto. I agree that calling places that are barely so "ghetto" and steering people away, because I think that creates ghettos, so I know it's damaging. I hate how it works, but as it is Grandview isn't a place I'd buy because I question the stability. Being from an area of KCK that really went down hill, I'm sensitive to that possibility. It is never ending.
I think honesty is the best policy and despite Grandview's attempts to improve its image the area continues to decline. It's bad and I don't think there is anything wrong with pointing this out to people out of the area. I was in Grandview last week, every time I go there the decline is more noticeable. Dressing up old downtown while everything around it crumbles (literally) might improve its image but it is still just window dressing, IMO. YMMV.

(disclosure....I lived/worked in the Grandview area from 1960's to late 1990's)

Back on topic: OP, while you are looking at Belton be sure not to overlook Raymore.
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Old 09-10-2012, 02:45 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
3,572 posts, read 6,198,795 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
I think honesty is the best policy and despite Grandview's attempts to improve its image the area continues to decline. It's bad and I don't think there is anything wrong with pointing this out to people out of the area. I was in Grandview last week, every time I go there the decline is more noticeable. Dressing up old downtown while everything around it crumbles (literally) might improve its image but it is still just window dressing, IMO. YMMV.

(disclosure....I lived/worked in the Grandview area from 1960's to late 1990's)

Back on topic: OP, while you are looking at Belton be sure not to overlook Raymore.
There are a lot of reasons places like Grandview are in decline in and around KC. Some sort of vague racism and classism are a couple of reasons, including the demographics of the school district and whether or not certain individuals would want to send their kids to school there. The overall rating of the school district is also a big reason, which unfortunately is largely tied to the demographic reality. Ultimately, there are real reasons why Raymore is growing so much faster than Belton and why Belton is growing and Grandview barely is. The school districts are rated at 8, 5, and 3, respectively at GreatSchools.org. In comparison, Blue Valley is rated at 9. Other reasons are the old original part of town, which is a plus to me, but many others equate old buildings and houses with ghetto. Then you have this phenomenon of people only wanting the BEST school districts, and while Belton and similar districts may provide good schools, they are overlooked in favor of, in this case, Raymore. And if you think about it, why not? A great education is necessary in today's world for children to succeed, so parents have to make these choices. So you have a system in place where places like KCMO feed into Grandview, which feeds into Belton, which feeds into Raymore, with each feeding essentially skimming the cream from the lower district, which ultimately leaves the lowest districts segregated and with scores reflective of the lowest demographics. This is a problem - socio-economic segregation - but I have no idea what can be done about it. It's a never-ending process depleting the core area of our metro of middle-class families and putting them on the outskirts, which the outskirts continually become ever further out.

As for Raymore and Belton. They're right next to each other and similar enough, but also different. Actually the demographics are quite a bit different. It wouldn't surprise me if people on the ground there think of Raymore as "rich" and Belton as "poor", especially the kids. Kind of like the Chrisman/inner Independence kids think Truman/suburban Independence kids are "rich".
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Old 09-22-2012, 01:41 AM
 
27 posts, read 47,107 times
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....okay....well i got to take a trip out to Belton and i really liked how it has the small town feel to it but at the same time has the stuff you'd expect to find in a bigger area (walmart, shopping areas, restaurants, etc.) At this point, we are definitely looking at buying a house in Belton.

Thanks for some of the information that wiggled in there
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Old 10-11-2012, 12:41 PM
 
27 posts, read 47,107 times
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Checked out Belton but didn't have time to look at Raymore. However, from what i'm seeing online I really do like Raymore. I DO like their great school ratings and that from everything i hear, they are very friendly and a great place to raise my two boys!
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Old 10-12-2012, 06:53 AM
 
220 posts, read 359,474 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erika87 View Post
Checked out Belton but didn't have time to look at Raymore. However, from what i'm seeing online I really do like Raymore. I DO like their great school ratings and that from everything i hear, they are very friendly and a great place to raise my two boys!
Raymore has a lot nicer schools (there is a definitive difference) and in my opinion is a much better place to raise a family because there are only a handful of bad streets in the entire town, so your kids will be less likely to fall in with the bad crowd. Belton has a negative image because it's full of trailer parks, and the main street is vacant and surrounded by older homes seen as "low rent", however Belton does have a lot of nice neighborhoods and because of the lower rated school districts your money goes a lot further there when house shopping.

In the area connecting Belton to Raymore though you'll find Walmart, Khols, Lowes, Home Depot, HyVee, Price Chopper, a movie theater and a variety of restaurants and other stores so the area isn't lacking for 95% of your shopping needs.


Disclaimer: I grew up in Raymore and have a lot of close connections to Belton.
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Old 10-12-2012, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
3,572 posts, read 6,198,795 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kc chris View Post
Raymore has a lot nicer schools (there is a definitive difference) and in my opinion is a much better place to raise a family because there are only a handful of bad streets in the entire town, so your kids will be less likely to fall in with the bad crowd. Belton has a negative image because it's full of trailer parks, and the main street is vacant and surrounded by older homes seen as "low rent", however Belton does have a lot of nice neighborhoods and because of the lower rated school districts your money goes a lot further there when house shopping.

In the area connecting Belton to Raymore though you'll find Walmart, Khols, Lowes, Home Depot, HyVee, Price Chopper, a movie theater and a variety of restaurants and other stores so the area isn't lacking for 95% of your shopping needs.


Disclaimer: I grew up in Raymore and have a lot of close connections to Belton.
I understand what you're saying about the contrast between Raymore and Belton, but Belton's Main St is hardly vacant. It seems healthy to me and busy enough. Humble, nautral, and organic too. Plenty of community events take place there too.

I realize you're from the area and that intimate familiarity can make for a stark contrast, but I'm pretty sure many outside of that small part of the world don't think of Belton or Raymore as being all that different. However, I do know they are different. What I wonder is why the Belton schools are rated so much lower. I wonder if it's just due to the poorer demographic that Raymore has far less of to deal with, or if Belton schools really are lower quality. For example, would a typical Raymore family's children do just as well in Belton schools and not be put at a disadvantage? Would Raymore's schools rating go down if the old section of Belton instantly became a part of the Raymore district? If this is the case, it's a shame the lower school ratings would simply thwart people from considering Belton because that sort of thing keeps a community down and makes it go down hill. However, I do understand social environment is important too as school is an important place in which kids are socialized. However....

I went to HS in Independence, KS, a small county-seat town with a mixed population and a rather sizeable middle/upper-middle class. There were kids whose parents were engineers, managers, etc. from the Cessna, Standard Motor Products, and Cobalt Boat plants, who mostly lived around the country club in the suburban part of town and kids who were dirt poor (townies?). Everybody got along. The poor portion didn't seem to hold down the well-to-do kids, especially considering many of the latter were in AP classes. Further, they had a solidarity amongst themselves from having attended the Catholic grade school in that town, which should be comparable to kids from a specific part of a town attending the same neighborhood grade school. So in my experience, poor kids don't necessarily hold down kids who would do well no matter where they are. I mean, in a place like Belton that isn't that bad. It just seems like the poor kids would be better off not being segregated and really both sides should benefit from rubbing shoulders. It's a shame district ratings screw that up.
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Old 10-13-2012, 09:05 AM
 
220 posts, read 359,474 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOKAN View Post
I understand what you're saying about the contrast between Raymore and Belton, but Belton's Main St is hardly vacant. It seems healthy to me and busy enough. Humble, nautral, and organic too. Plenty of community events take place there too.

I realize you're from the area and that intimate familiarity can make for a stark contrast, but I'm pretty sure many outside of that small part of the world don't think of Belton or Raymore as being all that different. However, I do know they are different. What I wonder is why the Belton schools are rated so much lower. I wonder if it's just due to the poorer demographic that Raymore has far less of to deal with, or if Belton schools really are lower quality. For example, would a typical Raymore family's children do just as well in Belton schools and not be put at a disadvantage? Would Raymore's schools rating go down if the old section of Belton instantly became a part of the Raymore district? If this is the case, it's a shame the lower school ratings would simply thwart people from considering Belton because that sort of thing keeps a community down and makes it go down hill. However, I do understand social environment is important too as school is an important place in which kids are socialized. However....

I went to HS in Independence, KS, a small county-seat town with a mixed population and a rather sizeable middle/upper-middle class. There were kids whose parents were engineers, managers, etc. from the Cessna, Standard Motor Products, and Cobalt Boat plants, who mostly lived around the country club in the suburban part of town and kids who were dirt poor (townies?). Everybody got along. The poor portion didn't seem to hold down the well-to-do kids, especially considering many of the latter were in AP classes. Further, they had a solidarity amongst themselves from having attended the Catholic grade school in that town, which should be comparable to kids from a specific part of a town attending the same neighborhood grade school. So in my experience, poor kids don't necessarily hold down kids who would do well no matter where they are. I mean, in a place like Belton that isn't that bad. It just seems like the poor kids would be better off not being segregated and really both sides should benefit from rubbing shoulders. It's a shame district ratings screw that up.
Maybe I just think the Belton main street is vacant because it's a far cry from the main street I remember as a kid.

The difference is the same between KCMO schools and Lees Summit schools, one has large percentage of involvement from 2 parent homes, one doesn't. While lower-income blue collar neighborhoods can definitely have the same involvement (there are plenty all over KC), I think it's fair to say poorer areas often don't and this is the case with Belton. All kid's have the same potential, some are a lot better focused on succeeding and their parents do what they can to help them stay on track. In classes with unruly kids where the teachers spend half the time trying to discipline instead of teach, or being constantly interrupted, lessons are left half finished and this is where the good students are penalized from being in a lower rated school district. Dump those KCMO disruptions into Lees Summit class rooms and it would go down hill. It's tough to discuss this stuff without sounding like an arrogant judgmental prick though.

Learning starts and ends at home though, if parents take the time to sit down with kids and go over their homework, help them study, etc. they should succeed regardless of the school district.

As for the students being in advanced classes to get away from the other kids, I know Raymore schools have AP courses (as well as dual credit college courses), I couldn't find anything on Belton having them. Both districts are A+, which means students have the option to receive 2 free years of community college if they meet a few prerequisite in high school (certain GPA's, so many hours of community service, etc.)
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