U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Missouri > Kansas City
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-30-2012, 03:32 PM
 
1,830 posts, read 3,114,909 times
Reputation: 532

Advertisements

^You bring that up every time however Cincy, Pitt and Cleve airports used to be ranked higher than KCI at times. Now they are all ranked much lower.

No doubt KCI could have done other things. Coulda, woulda, shoulda. The airport was designed just before security gates were required, which completely ruined the design.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-30-2012, 03:42 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
10,706 posts, read 18,531,221 times
Reputation: 5420
But again, KC Is not a rustbelt city stuck in the upper midwest competing with six other rustbelt cities for flights for a shrinking market of 2-3 million. While KC is also not a boom town like Denver or Dallas, I think it leans more that way than a Cleveland or Pittsburgh or it should have.

Anyway, KC is getting a new airport terminal. Lets just hope they do it right and maybe it's not to late for KC to get back to its original plans of being one the bigger airports between the coasts. Denver pretty much ran with KC's idea and implemented it. At least you will be able to get a slice of pizza before your flight to DFW .

OH and yea, Southwest is pricing themselves out of recreational travel and business travelers will leave if they are the same price as others. They better chill out or things will reverse for them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-30-2012, 03:49 PM
 
Location: Old Hyde Park, Kansas City,MO
1,145 posts, read 2,002,329 times
Reputation: 562
And the Ironic thing in all of this is that DFW was actually modeled after KCI and actually has a similar feel, just lots bigger. DFW actually gets high rankings as one of the best airport to be stranded, etc.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-30-2012, 06:08 PM
 
519 posts, read 469,461 times
Reputation: 325
Back in 2000 Southwest had about 70 flights a day at KCI-now they are below that while St Louis has grown a lot and I'm not sure if Southwest was even flying to Denver. So Kansas is never growing with flights-just flights dropped and flights added. The design is horrible and what gets me is that Kansas City probably has the fattest population per capital of any city so maybe having to walk more than 75 feet would be beneficial to Kansas Citians.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-01-2012, 10:59 AM
 
Location: The canyon (with my pistols and knife)
12,996 posts, read 17,148,285 times
Reputation: 14307
MCI should be fine simply because of its distance from other major cities. Part of why air traffic at PIT, CLE and CVG has decreased faster is because they're driving distance from several other major cities. For example, Pittsburgh is two hours from Cleveland by car, three hours from Buffalo and Columbus; four hours from Baltimore, Rochester and Washington DC; five hours from Cincinnati, Detroit and Philadelphia; six hours from Indianapolis, Louisville, New York, Richmond and Toronto, seven hours from Virginia Beach/Norfolk, and eight hours from Boston, Charlotte, Chicago and Raleigh/Durham. And if you're staying overnight, Atlanta, Milwaukee, Montreal, Nashville and St. Louis are all within 12 hours.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-01-2012, 02:04 PM
 
1,830 posts, read 3,114,909 times
Reputation: 532
With the airline consolidations, they have been cutting flights in all mid-size airports and adding in the top 20 hubs. It doesn't really have much to do with the airport or market size situation. KCI is doing OK considering that. Nearly all other midsize airports are shrinking faster than KCI, except the most economically strong markets. Former mini-hubs like Memphis and Cincy used to have more traffic than KCI, now they are ranked way lower. STL used to be ranked top 10 and airline consolidation knocked them down to past 30th. STL is getting some correction with flight additions, but still traffic is way way below market size compared to KC region. STL now has only about 12M passengers per year, which is what KCI had at peak about 5 years ago.

The timing seems about right for KC to startup another airline similar to Vanguard to fill in some lost non-stop flights. With more US fuel production, fuel prices should stay lower long term (or at least predictably manageable) and with all the consolidation, it's time to take a look at the where the chips have fallen and look for gaps/opportunities where there is demand. KCI has more demand but the airlines are cutting supply (of flights) in favor of the major hubs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-01-2012, 03:14 PM
 
1,830 posts, read 3,114,909 times
Reputation: 532
The only non tourist market with more traffic than KCI for its size is SLC, which is a hub.

List of the busiest airports in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Edit: In 2005, KCI ranked 39th and in 2011 ranked 32nd so even though slightly lower traffic , others have lost even more. KCI will probably drop one notch to 33rd this year though as SWA is focusing on Houston Hobby, which will likely pass KCI this year.

Last edited by xenokc; 12-01-2012 at 03:47 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-02-2012, 11:27 AM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
10,706 posts, read 18,531,221 times
Reputation: 5420
^ all valid points.

My point is that in 2005, KCI may well have been ranked quite a bit higher than 39th and in 2011 it could be ranked higher (regardless of what other airports are doing) had KCI built a new terminal that is more friendly to the airlines and more conductive to being a larger more national airport vs a becoming the regional fly to a hub airport it has become.

KCI has simply not taken advantage of the huge market it serves (near 3 million KC region plus many millions more in MO,KS, IA, NE, OK), its geographically central location nationally and its relatively unmatched under utilized runway capacity all because it has one of the most screwed up and in-efficient terminal situations in the country.

Is KCI doing better than Cincy or Pittsburgh today? I guess. But I don't look at it that way. I look at DIA and often wonder if that could have been KCI and how much different Kansas City might be today had KCI gone a direction other than the status quo of keeping the 75 foot walk over building a modern airport terminal for a progressive and growing city.

300 million on renovating those terminals that will soon be destroyed or mothballed. That's 25% of a new terminal. That is a discrace.

Kind of like spending 250 million on Kauffman Stadium when a new downtown one could have been built for 400 million (KC will be looking at a new stadium again within 10 years) or 80 million on Kemper arena (now mothballed) when a new arena cost 250 million.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-02-2012, 11:42 AM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
10,706 posts, read 18,531,221 times
Reputation: 5420
xenokc, this frustration is not directed at you, I'm pretty sure we are on the same page with the airport situation. I just get tired of the excuses as to why status quo is justified. Why does it take KC 20 times longer to figure things out than any other city. The convention hotel fiasco is a prime example. I see other cities study an idea and then implement it quicker than KC can study something for the 10th time. Like KCI, downtown KC could easily become a second tier convention city again. It has all the components now of a great convention city except about 2000 hotel rooms (and a decent airport). So after spending billions to fix up downtown, now the city drags its feet for a decade on that last piece of the puzzle that would help justify all the other things that city has done.

With the streetcar line to crown center, downtown KC could be a fantastic convention city now with only a 1000 room hotel. The city has got to get that done.

If KC opens a new convention hotel downtown, the new street car to connect downtown to the 2000 crown center hotel rooms and a new airport terminal in the next few years, I think it will all finally come together after about 20 years of studies and I will finally say job well done!

KC will be back on track to compete with places like Denver and MSP and not just be doing better than Buffalo or Cleveland.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-02-2012, 12:28 PM
 
1,830 posts, read 3,114,909 times
Reputation: 532
^None of that is related to why airlines have been cutting flights. It has nothing to do with KCI or KC or all the things you bickered about. Airlines consolidated and cut flights in all mid-sized markets - consolidation severely hurt many markets. Consolidation is precisely the reason. KC actually fared better than most and bumped up the rankings several notches even though some cuts. Probably the only airport to go up many notches, which means KCI did a great job at least keeping what they can. I praise them for that. You find any possible way to spin it down and bring up completely unrelated same old rants.

You're back to your long winded rants that dwell on the past, not healthy dude. KC is getting a new airport in the end anyway, got Google fiber, is improving in many other ways, and makes mistakes just as many cities do.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Missouri > Kansas City
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top