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Old 12-02-2012, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
10,705 posts, read 18,525,549 times
Reputation: 5420

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Nothing "unhealthy" about discussing issues that effect a city. You can can talk about google fiber all day long. It's a great thing for the city. As I have said many times before, I think I praise KC plenty.

But at the same time you can't ignore the shortcomings either. KCI is building a new terminal only after spending 300 million to renovate. I was "bickering" then too while 99% of KC was loving the idea of renovating. May as well have put 300 million dollars on a barge and sent it down the MO river.

I only used the convention hotel as yet another developing example of the city procrastinating and not learning from past mistakes. The city keeps making the same mistakes over and over and over again.

Why did the city spend 200-300 million expanding and renovating bartle hall if they are not going to do the one thing the city needs to get some use out of it? Why spend so much building the P&L district if you are not going to go that extra mile and make sure KC has convention/tourist traffic to help sustain it?

I get that you don't want to discuss anything about KC that is not straight from the chamber of commerce's glossy brochures, but believe it or not, it's "bickering and long rants" from people like me that eventually helps a city develop reasons for people like you to be impressed by what a city is doing.

And when you finally get something done, you move on to the next idea, project or whatever and you bicker about that...

This can be done while appreciating the positive things that are going on. Lots of lots of bickering has occurred in Denver and it still does. And you know what? It works. Things get done and there is always something in the pipeline there besides studies.
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Old 12-02-2012, 01:09 PM
 
1,830 posts, read 3,114,153 times
Reputation: 532
None of it has anything to do with the thread and not sure why you brought it up (other than you seem to love to find a way to bring unrelated things that annoy you into many threads). Flight cuts affected most markets due to airline consolidation. That is it! You as usual try to blame it on KC when KCI actually did great retaining what it can and brought itself up 7 notches in the rankings. I'm not disagreeing with you on KC weaknesses, but you spin it way off base... none of this has anything to do with flight cuts. You find ways to drag in the same old unrelated dirt for the wrong reasons. KCI did a great job given what they have to work with.

And I disagree with you on the scope of the KCI market. Omaha, Des Moines and Wichita have their own connections to Denver and Chicago. Only a handful use KCI. If going to the coasts, is better for them to hop via Denver/Chicago than sidestep through KC first.

Last edited by xenokc; 12-02-2012 at 01:34 PM..
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Old 12-02-2012, 01:36 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
10,705 posts, read 18,525,549 times
Reputation: 5420
Had KCI put that 300 million into a down payment for a new billion dollar terminal ten years ago I'm nearly certain that Southwest would have built a much much larger presence at KCI making KCI more successful then they are now. Especially now that Southwest and AirTran have merged. I honestly think that had KCI built a new terminal, Southwest would have doubled their presence at KCI and I think KCI would have picked up many AirTran flights to new markets even in the Caribbean, Mexico etc.

And I don't think I am over estimating the potential size of the market for KCI.

You have over 3 million people in the KC airport region alone(KC-Topeka-Manhattan-St Joe etc) and lots of people fly out of KCI from as far away as Wichita etc because it's cheaper and there are more flights. Now that has diminished some because KCI is starting to lack frequent (or any at all) direct flights to many large markets so with where KCI is going, it makes no little sense to drive to KCI and catch a flight to a hub. You can do that in Wichita. My point is that KCI has a "pool" of millions to pull from in addition to a region that has no other option. An airport like Cincy or even St Louis ultimately has a smaller market and people have more choices.

Combine that with great runway capacity and a central location and you have the ingredients for an airport that had the potential of serving more people in a greater area than even DIA does.

I think I have said this ten times in different ways in this thread so I'm done here. Bottom line is you have to think very progressively, spend money and not be afraid of change and I think KCI dropped the ball here and may have even missed the boat even if they do finally build a new terminal.

Moving on
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Old 12-02-2012, 01:47 PM
 
1,830 posts, read 3,114,153 times
Reputation: 532
^Even if that perfect scenario got pulled off, airport consolidation is the issue here in the end, not because KC made wrong moves. Bottom line is that KCI is doing pretty well considering what they have to work with. It is the only airport that has gone up 7 notches since 2005 despite airline reductions.

Not dwelling on the past, the next near term forward moves to take until new terminal/airport is to pursue more flights from carriers by maybe reducing gate costs (or determine what airlines want) or best case scenario, seek a new KC startup airline like Vangard and the timing might be about right. Best to talk about next realistic steps, not dwell on past like you constantly focus on, which accomplishes nothing.
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Old 12-03-2012, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Old Hyde Park, Kansas City,MO
1,145 posts, read 2,001,815 times
Reputation: 562
Indy got a new terminal and they are not getting all kinds of new flights, traffic has actually been decreasing every year.
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Old 12-03-2012, 12:13 PM
 
1,830 posts, read 3,114,153 times
Reputation: 532
Yeah, Indy lost at least 5 notches in traffic ranking since 2005 despite new $1B terminal. The flight reductions are purely based on airline consolidations, not about the airport design. KCI is very fortunate to maintain the flights it has, which has resulted in going up about 7 notches.

STL will likely get more flights before KCI as they are way below in flights/market ratio compared to KC and was hurt much harder by airline consolidations.

List of the busiest airports in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 12-03-2012, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
10,705 posts, read 18,525,549 times
Reputation: 5420
Interesting story:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...456381458.html

which backs up what xenokc has been saying.

I still think that KCI can't be directly compared to markets like Cincy, Indy, Cleveland etc though. I just think KC has more potential being the big airport of a much larger area with little competition and in a city with a lot of tech growth and stronger economy that most upper Midwest cities.

Just like the article states, people in Cincy drive to Dayton and Indy as an alternative. Those markets out there are very diluted compared to KC’s potential market.
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:57 AM
 
Location: Old Hyde Park, Kansas City,MO
1,145 posts, read 2,001,815 times
Reputation: 562
We are pretty lucky we don't have a dominant carrier. Delta had a Fortress Hub at Cincinnati, Prices were outrageous, flights would consistently be in the 400-500 dollar range to fly somewhere short like Chicago or Detroit.

If Kansas City had a dominant carrier and prices were much higher, do you really think people would be driving from Wichita, Omaha, Des Moines, and Oklahoma, i highly doubt it.
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