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Old 04-10-2013, 03:33 PM
 
220 posts, read 360,626 times
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I think the nation as a whole needs to let the airline industry dwindle into nothing and focus on high speed rail... something KC could definitely be a megahub for, but that's a whole different discussion.

I'm not opposed to a big single terminal similar to MSP's with new highway access built to it at all, but like xenokc pointed out I don't think it's an immediate need, especially not for the locals.
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Old 04-10-2013, 03:39 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
10,709 posts, read 18,558,150 times
Reputation: 5427
Quote:
Originally Posted by kc chris View Post
I think the nation as a whole needs to let the airline industry dwindle into nothing and focus on high speed rail... something KC could definitely be a megahub for, but that's a whole different discussion.
Totally agree. I think it would be great for MO between KC and StL. But I can't believe how limited high speed rail is out here on the east coast where it makes even more sense (most is not even true high speed).

Not sure why America has just not developed a modern rail system. They should be doing more of it than they are.
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Old 04-10-2013, 03:48 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
10,709 posts, read 18,558,150 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xenokc View Post
I'm just saying that $1.2B is a lot when KCI is reasonably functional and is considered one of easiest to use in the world (for locals). It's not as clear cut decision. If it were a run down airport, it would get huge support. But with the airline consolidations going on, $1.2B is even riskier than 5-10 years ago. Again, I'm still for it. There's just good reason some people aren't, especially those who aren't ecodev minded as you and I are.
I get that and for 1.2 billion, I'm not even sure I like the current plan. Like I said, find the money to help MoDot build the infrastructure and build a new terminal south of Tiffany Springs.

I know it's not clear cut. But most locals are not looking at anything other than their short walks to their gates and there is just so much more at stake. I just wish the city has a little more vision, a problem I have always had with KC. But I get it that many there like that about the city.
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Old 04-10-2013, 03:56 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
7,685 posts, read 5,665,333 times
Reputation: 7560
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
Indy has built a new downtown football stadium, new convention hotels, all kinds of new downtown parks and trails, new airport terminal etc because the city has decided it does want to be an impressive city to outsiders and even though they may not have as busy of an airport, they have turned themselves into a pretty competitive tourism and convention city that is welcoming to visitors, even those that only set foot in the airport. Right now KC is not even competing with Indy for conventions (or other national events) even though I think KC has a lot more to offer than Indy as a metropolitan area.

If KC doesn't want to do this, then why expand Bartle, build the ballroom, P&L District etc? I never quite get the KC way of doing everything kind of half azz. If the city wants to keep its 1960's era airport that really gives the city a terrible first and last impression or not build modern convention hotels etc, then why did they even spend the money on expanding Bartle Hall or the Ballroom etc. Why even build the P&L district if they don't have convention traffic to help offset the 16 million annual subsidy for the place?

I guess I just don't get the basic mentality of KC residents. Most did not want the P&L district and to this day, the district gets a lot of negative press from locals. Nobody wanted the replace Kemper Arena. The Sprint Center was practically crammed down their throats and only passed with some very strong short term leadership from Mayor Barnes even though Kemper was practically getting mothballed right in front of them. The city actually elected Funkhouser as mayor which goes against all ideas of building a dynamic, modern and impressive city that is actually a place people want to visit, live and work. Bringing the baseball stadium downtown could not even gain traction and I can only dream of how much more vibrant downtown would be with 2 million baseball fans descending on downtown every summer. Just one more thing that would have made it easier to build new hotels and mass transit and not have to subsidize the P&L district.

Most cities want to impress others and most do. With as much of an inferiority complex KC has, I have never quite understood why the city doesn't put a little more effort into creating a complete package of a modern city that attracts new residents, companies and tourists and try to change the perception of KC which in turn would probably help it in the long run.

Luckily there are always just enough people to get some projects thru. Sprint Center, P&L District, even the little street car line are generally projects that just wouldn't have happened if the general public was in charge and the same thing may happen with the airport terminal, I don't know. But like other issues, it will not be easy to pass a city wide bond issue.

KC is a great city, but even as much as KC has to offer, the lack of local investment in infrastructure (transit, airport, recreation etc) and the lack of having a central focus of urban critical mass (locating cultural assets all over kindom come) and of course the ongoing civil war between the MO and KS sides of the metro will always keep KC a step behind cities that actually have less to offer, but will eventually pass KC (Portland, Charlotte, San Antonio, Nashville, Indianapolis etc) just like Denver, Minneapolis, Atlanta etc did long ago.

Denver has invested billions into a new airport, convention facilities, major hotels, recreational trails, downtown stadiums, region wide transit etc and has put nearly all their attractions in a central urban location even though most are funded via the entire metro area. Is it any wonder the city has completely blown past the KC area even though KC was once twice the size of Denver?

KC has this thing about being a gigantic small town. I guess that's why I never did really fit in there very well. But cities and urban planning is my thing, so crownvic, if you don't like it, then ignore it.

Even with my rather aggressive stance on topics like this, you are the only one that comes in and acts childish with the likes of "woefully tiresome drivel". If anybody has little to contribute to a conversation other than trolling comments. It's you.

I respect those that love KCI or have reasons to leave it the way it is. I don't agree, but I respect them and will simply debate my personal ideas. Not sure how many agree with your stance to just do away with the TSA. At least I'm realistic.
Struck a nerve, did I? Good, because sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact that KC people do not share your urban utopian vision. And because they don't, the KC metro is a better place to live. Let me repeat that....the KC metro is a better place to live.

KC is to be applauded for wanting to keep it that way and remaining indifferent to the calls of a few to tear it all down in a quest to clone "progressive" ideals....which are, in fact, anything but.

The point that you will never see in this airport debate is that the "dark ages of air travel" that you bemoan were truly the best of times in commercial aviation. A few decades ago, people loved to fly. Today, many - probably most - avoid it like the plague to the extent possible. For good reason.
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Old 04-10-2013, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
10,709 posts, read 18,558,150 times
Reputation: 5427
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownVic95 View Post
The point that you will never see in this airport debate is that the "dark ages of air travel" that you bemoan were truly the best of times in commercial aviation. A few decades ago, people loved to fly. Today, many - probably most - avoid it like the plague to the extent possible. For good reason.
Actually I agree with this. I would much rather drive than fly, it's just not often an option. But while KCI "can" be an easy airport to use, it is also one of those airports that can turn an unpleasant traveling experience into one that you will remember forever and never want to repeat.

As far as getting back to the days of flying being enjoyable. Those days are gone. So may as well have a terminal that offers as much hospitality as possible and that's how most modern airports are today.

Obviously I have a different opinion on how an airport should be. But like you said, I'm not alone. Look at reviews of KCI online and ask yourself why in the world Southwest would add flights to KC over Denver right now. Most people will gladly walk an extra 5 minutes to have the amenities of a modern airport terminal rather than being crammed into dark tiny gates (while most of KCI is a ghost town) with no food, often no seats, tiny nasty bathrooms etc is in fact the the dark ages.

How is this good for KC?

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...-worst-airport

http://jaredjennings.org/2013/03/24/...-as-the-worst/

http://www.yelp.com/biz/kansas-city-...-kansas-city-2

Last edited by kcmo; 04-10-2013 at 04:21 PM..
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Old 04-10-2013, 04:28 PM
 
47 posts, read 71,192 times
Reputation: 68
Idk about the airport but the roads killed my car passing through there going cross country one summer.
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Old 04-10-2013, 04:32 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
10,709 posts, read 18,558,150 times
Reputation: 5427
Quote:
Originally Posted by fandango9 View Post
Idk about the airport but the roads killed my car passing through there going cross country one summer.
Not sure how this is possible. They have been "fixing" I-70 in KCMO for the past 15 years! I hear they are fixing it this summer too.
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Old 04-10-2013, 10:53 PM
 
47 posts, read 71,192 times
Reputation: 68
It was about 15 years ago, got on an off/change ramp, a hole swallowed my car, tore up the undercarriage.
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Old 04-11-2013, 07:02 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
7,685 posts, read 5,665,333 times
Reputation: 7560
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
Actually I agree with this. I would much rather drive than fly, it's just not often an option. But while KCI "can" be an easy airport to use, it is also one of those airports that can turn an unpleasant traveling experience into one that you will remember forever and never want to repeat.

As far as getting back to the days of flying being enjoyable. Those days are gone. So may as well have a terminal that offers as much hospitality as possible and that's how most modern airports are today.

Obviously I have a different opinion on how an airport should be. But like you said, I'm not alone. Look at reviews of KCI online and ask yourself why in the world Southwest would add flights to KC over Denver right now. Most people will gladly walk an extra 5 minutes to have the amenities of a modern airport terminal rather than being crammed into dark tiny gates (while most of KCI is a ghost town) with no food, often no seats, tiny nasty bathrooms etc is in fact the the dark ages.

How is this good for KC?

OPINION: Delayed conclusion: Get working on KCI improvements - Orlando Sentinel

Worst Airport, Why Kansas City International MCI scores as the worst | ZENworks Ninja

Kansas City International Airport - Kansas City, MO
Yeah, I guess you're right.

1.2 billion is a small price to pay if it could mean another star on yelp.

As far as "those days are gone" is concerned, only in the minds of those resigned to the continued dilution and disappearance of what once truly was the greatest country on earth. They are gone only to the extent that we allow it.

That's the problem with America today. In virtually the blink of an eye on the timeline of history, we have slipped to a sad lot of cynical rats in a maze....with no vision, no courage, no independent spirit of the type that our founders and the following generations that built this nation had. We are now a pathetic lot of straight-jacketed cogs in the machinery of the system with no will to be anything else.

Those days may be gone today, but could be back tomorrow if only we had any national purpose left beyond seeing to all things PC.
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Old 04-11-2013, 07:21 AM
 
220 posts, read 360,626 times
Reputation: 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by fandango9 View Post
It was about 15 years ago, got on an off/change ramp, a hole swallowed my car, tore up the undercarriage.
Doesn't surprise me. I switched from a car to a truck purely because of the paved roads.
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