New job in KCMO - Where to live and what to consider? (Kansas City: transplants, mortgage)

[pacificwhim]

I spent 44 years living in coastal Southern California and 3 years living in Seattle. People are largely no different from place to place. Yes, in Seattle they are less warm and harder to get to know. Yes, in SoCal people are transient and it's hard to find neighborhoods with deep roots. Yes, people in both locales (as well as the Bay Area) can be materialistic and tech-obsessed. But all in all, people are the same in the Midwest or on the coast. We all want connection, we all get back from others what we give out to the world, and we all crave security, vitality and beauty in the places we live. We're not so different, and I can say that as a lifelong California boy who now lives in KC.

As for the great divide between KC and other metros as far as outdoor rec, it's quite obvious to me: the city's outdoor venues are, for the most part, not woven into the larger fabric of the city. Swope Park is far south rather than in the middle of the city, as it should be. Penn Valley's lake isn't even reachable on foot from Crown Center without taking your life in your hands. There's no central waterway or trail network running north-south in a north-south oriented city. Most of the outdoor amenities are neighborhood-centric, not city-centric. There's no single natural feature binding different parts of the city together. If KC had grown up on both sides of the Missouri River, with the river running down the middle as in many cities, that would have been different. But, alas.

[TabulaRasa]

Eh, people who want to use the outdoor amenities use them. People who aren't into it aren't going to. Swope Park's being south (I don't even think it's extremely far south, personally) isn't the reason it's underutilized. The people who like the outdoors and parks in KC use them...the people who really don't care aren't going to.

[CrownVic95]

Originally Posted by pacificwhim

I spent 44 years living in coastal Southern California and 3 years living in Seattle. People are largely no different from place to place. Yes, in Seattle they are less warm and harder to get to know. Yes, in SoCal people are transient and it's hard to find neighborhoods with deep roots. Yes, people in both locales (as well as the Bay Area) can be materialistic and tech-obsessed. But all in all, people are the same in the Midwest or on the coast. We all want connection, we all get back from others what we give out to the world, and we all crave security, vitality and beauty in the places we live. We're not so different, and I can say that as a lifelong California boy who now lives in KC.

As for the great divide between KC and other metros as far as outdoor rec, it's quite obvious to me: the city's outdoor venues are, for the most part, not woven into the larger fabric of the city. Swope Park is far south rather than in the middle of the city, as it should be. Penn Valley's lake isn't even reachable on foot from Crown Center without taking your life in your hands. There's no central waterway or trail network running north-south in a north-south oriented city. Most of the outdoor amenities are neighborhood-centric, not city-centric. There's no single natural feature binding different parts of the city together. If KC had grown up on both sides of the Missouri River, with the river running down the middle as in many cities, that would have been different. But, alas.

People are profoundly different from place to place....wherever there are profound cultural differences. And the difference between the heartland and the Bay area is night and day. The Bay area is the starkest contrast among the western cities, but you don't have to go further west than Denver to start to observe the (relative) decay.

Talk to this guy....he seems to get it.
http://www.city-data.com/forum/31866900-post21.html

Welcome to KC, Bluefox. As an ex-Californian (albeit an old fart with a wife and two kids) I can attest that you'll like it here. Think of it as exchanging the Pacific and the San Gabriel Mountains for friendlier people, neighborhoods where families actually stay for generations

[KC_Sleuth]

Originally Posted by CrownVic95

People are profoundly different from place to place....wherever there are profound cultural differences. And the difference between the heartland and the Bay area is night and day. The Bay area is the starkest contrast among the western cities, but you don't have to go further west than Denver to start to observe the (relative) decay.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/31866900-post21.html

But opinions about culture are subjective...just because something is "normal" does not mean it is good, and just because certain aspects of culture decay doesn't mean we should lament them...culture constructs are relatively arbitrary and temporary. Personally Calif. culture never bothered me...let people do what they want...

[pacificwhim]

Originally Posted by CrownVic95

People are profoundly different from place to place....wherever there are profound cultural differences. And the difference between the heartland and the Bay area is night and day. The Bay area is the starkest contrast among the western cities, but you don't have to go further west than Denver to start to observe the (relative) decay.

Talk to this guy....he seems to get it.
http://www.city-data.com/forum/31866900-post21.html

No, people are not different. Cultural fabric is different, which is why I said that the neighborhoods in places like KC go deeper and the people are friendlier. It's the culture that encourages that friendliness because people here are not in their cars all the time and tend to live in neighborhoods for many years. Culture varies; human beings are the same everywhere. I spent years working and traveling around the Bay Area, and the culture may be different, but the people are the same homo sapiens you'd see in KC.

You use the word "decay." You have no idea what you're talking about. The West contains some of the most vibrant cities in the country.

[pacificwhim]

Originally Posted by KC_Sleuth

But opinions about culture are subjective...just because something is "normal" does not mean it is good, and just because certain aspects of culture decay doesn't mean we should lament them...culture constructs are relatively arbitrary and temporary. Personally Calif. culture never bothered me...let people do what they want...

Who decides what "decay" is? It's an asinine term. I lived on the Pacific for nearly 40 years in California, during most of which I was a single man. The transient, never-know-your-neighbors culture didn't bother me then, because I had a circle of close friends and no children. It became relevant to me when I wanted to put down roots and raise my kids in an old-fashioned "village." Thus, the eventual move to KC. But there's nothing inherently more or less virtuous about any locale's culture as long as it's functional for the people it serves, whether that's conservative neighborhoods of a place like Nashville or the Castro District in SF. If it works for the people who live there, it's nobody else's business to judge.

To me, decay is about those areas where the local fabric has collapsed and is not serving anyone, such as areas of extreme poverty, such as urban Detroit.

[TabulaRasa]

I also agree that people are basically the same wherever you go. There are cultural norms specific to certain areas, but they're really mostly superficial, and fleetingly important. A really good person is going to be a really good person whether they're located in Seattle, Austin, or Portland, ME. Likewise, an a$$hole in NYC is going to be an a$$hole in Chicago, Bismark, Boise, or Albuquerque.

[CrownVic95]

Originally Posted by pacificwhim

No, people are not different. Cultural fabric is different, which is why I said that the neighborhoods in places like KC go deeper and the people are friendlier. It's the culture that encourages that friendliness because people here are not in their cars all the time and tend to live in neighborhoods for many years. Culture varies; human beings are the same everywhere. I spent years working and traveling around the Bay Area, and the culture may be different, but the people are the same homo sapiens you'd see in KC.

You use the word "decay." You have no idea what you're talking about. The West contains some of the most vibrant cities in the country.

I see....so now it's a pissing contest. I'm talking about deeply ingrained learned behavior patterns and you're talking utterly pointlessly about DNA.

There's always room for one more on my ignore list and it didn't you long.

[CrownVic95]

Originally Posted by TabulaRasa

I also agree that people are basically the same wherever you go. There are cultural norms specific to certain areas, but they're really mostly superficial, and fleetingly important. A really good person is going to be a really good person whether they're located in Seattle, Austin, or Portland, ME. Likewise, an a$$hole in NYC is going to be an a$$hole in Chicago, Bismark, Boise, or Albuquerque.

The point you're missing is that a much greater portion of the population learns to be a$$holes in a place like the Bay area than in the KC area. Or do you think all a$$holes are born and not made?

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by CrownVic95

The point you're missing is that a much greater portion of the population learns to be a$$holes in a place like the Bay area than in the KC area. Or do you think all a$$holes are born and not made?

It likely has a lot to do with the extremely competitive rat race economy of the Bay Area, high population density, and high cost of living. There you have it, a trifecta. Also, I've found NYC people to be more friendly than those in the Bay Area.