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Old 01-03-2014, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
3,572 posts, read 6,195,578 times
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This article seems to be just for fun, but the statistics are interesting.

A radical idea: Build the new KCI in Johnson County - KansasCity.com
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Old 01-03-2014, 04:29 PM
 
12,607 posts, read 14,609,308 times
Reputation: 14096
Great minds think alike! I just read that article and was coming here to post it. Makes sense to me. An excerpt from the article:

The results, in a nutshell:
51 percent were from Kansas.
43 percent were from Missouri.
20 percent were from Kansas City, Mo., a city of 459,000 people.
13 percent were from Overland Park, a city of 175,000 people.

In fact, there were more vehicles from just Overland Park, Olathe and Shawnee than from all of Kansas City.
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Old 01-03-2014, 04:32 PM
 
Location: IN
20,168 posts, read 34,480,827 times
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LOL, kcmo will have a field day with this one!
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Old 01-03-2014, 05:01 PM
 
2,195 posts, read 2,144,593 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luzianne View Post
Great minds think alike! I just read that article and was coming here to post it. Makes sense to me. An excerpt from the article:

The results, in a nutshell:
51 percent were from Kansas.
43 percent were from Missouri.
20 percent were from Kansas City, Mo., a city of 459,000 people.
13 percent were from Overland Park, a city of 175,000 people.

In fact, there were more vehicles from just Overland Park, Olathe and Shawnee than from all of Kansas City.
Vehicles are not the same thing as passengers/users.
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Old 01-03-2014, 05:19 PM
 
12,607 posts, read 14,609,308 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s.davis View Post
Vehicles are not the same thing as passengers/users.
Only the last line was numbers vehicles. Did you read the article?
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Old 01-03-2014, 06:17 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
10,705 posts, read 18,493,517 times
Reputation: 5409
I've seen these numbers before and there is nothing new in them.

I have not done the math, but is there a big difference between the percents of people people from KCMO vs OPKS? Looks like both cities have a similar percent of people using the airport. And OP+Shawnee+Olathe is probably pretty close to the same population of KCMO so I would imagine their numbers combined would be similar to KCMO as well and affluent suburbanites in general use airports more often than people in poor parts of cities, so places like Lee's Summit, Blue Springs and Liberty will also have a slightly higher percent use than KCMO alone.

From what I have seen the actual metro area users that use KCI break down almost exactly with the population of the metro area, so about 55-60% from MO and the remainders the KS side. KCK doesn't use it much and JoCo uses it a little more than average.

The reason KS has more overall users than MO is because KCI is the primary airport from most of the rest of the populated portions of the state as well. From Lawrence to Topeka to Manhattan and even many in Wichita (which severely lacks flights and they are more expensive). Missouri on the other hand has another major airport and most people that live equal distance between KC and StL choose StL.

So these stats make perfect sense.

What does not make perfect sense is building a new airport, anywhere else in the metro (not just JoCo). I mean, the people that don't want to spend a billion dollars on a new terminal can't possibly be the same ones that would even remotely think that building a whole new airport makes an iota of sense. It would be an absolute colossal waste of money to build new airport in a different location.

The new terminal and parking garages would cost 1.5-2 billion. Three new 10k foot runways will cost close to a billion dollars each. The cost of the land to build a new airport would probably approach a billion dollars plus all new infrastructure. Even the airport fire station, control tower etc all add up to many hundreds of millions.

A new terminal at KCI (even at a new location other than terminal A) would cost a few hundred million to tie the terminal to 152 and I-29, an area already built up with highways and ramps. If you build a new airport in the south metro it would have to be WAY south like in northern Miami County or the southern JoCo county line and it would require probably a billion dollars of highway upgrades to build a major airport out there with all new infrastructure, not just for the terminal, but all of it. A new airport in some field 50-60 miles from downtown KC and 20-30 miles form the core of Overland Park would cost 5-6 billion at the very minimum and it would be just as far away from most of developed JoCo as KCI is.

Then you have all the other problems. Like it would take decades to build up a decent amount of hotel rooms around the airport and it would kill KC's chances of ever being a convention destination again and OP Convention Center will never be a national convention center, ever. It's a state convention center, and people living in Kansas don't need to fly to OP. KCI is only 15 minutes from Downtown KC, a southern location would put it nearly an hour if not more away from downtown and northern suburbs may as well drive to Omaha.

Then you have this giant airport in the northland that you have to find a new use for which would be impossible and tearing out all that relatively new concrete would be asinine.

But would JoCo or KS try? Probably. They originally wanted New Century to be a commercial airport and quickly found out that there was zero interest by the airlines.

So there you have it. My thoughts on the issue.

KCI sucks though, I hope the people in KC that like to "save" everything don't screw things up because the airport needs a new terminal.

And I must say the photo below is comical. I have been in lines like this at KCI and they take FOREVER and that's before you get locked into a cattle pen of a gate with nasty little bathrooms and no basic amenities and you hope and pray your flight is not delayed for even ten minutes so you can get to a more civilized and modern place although you may need that delay depending on the TSA and baggage wait times. KCI can be a terribly in-efficient and painful airport.


Last edited by kcmo; 01-03-2014 at 06:40 PM..
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Old 01-04-2014, 05:32 AM
 
2,195 posts, read 2,144,593 times
Reputation: 1916
Quote:
Originally Posted by luzianne View Post
Only the last line was numbers vehicles. Did you read the article?
Wrong.

All the numbers cited in the article were vehicle counts:

Quote:
KCI officials did a parking facilities ZIP Code study of who was in their lots in the month of October 2013.

Read more here: A radical idea: Build the new KCI in Johnson County - KansasCity.com
Quote:
there were more vehicles from just Overland Park, Olathe and Shawnee than from all of Kansas City.

Read more here: A radical idea: Build the new KCI in Johnson County - KansasCity.com
Quote:
n June 2008, 49 percent of the vehicles were from Kansas and 45 percent were from Missouri.

Read more here: A radical idea: Build the new KCI in Johnson County - KansasCity.com
Quote:
Plus, much as I like looking at this data, it’s from only one month. And it’s unknown exactly what it measures. For example, how many actual airplane users arrived in each vehicle?

Read more here: A radical idea: Build the new KCI in Johnson County - KansasCity.com
Next time you try to call someone out on reading comprehension, you should double check to make sure you're not demonstrably wrong.
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Old 01-06-2014, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Florida and New England
1,101 posts, read 1,304,562 times
Reputation: 1358
The airport is not going to move. But I do think where it is, and the siting decisions back in the late 1960s, were sprawl-spreading errors.

If the airport were to be sited somewhere closer to the population growth, the optimal choice would be Richards-Gebaur. The road infrastructure would need the least re-work. New Century is too far west and relies solely on I-35.

The site location of the current airport had something to do with the already-existing TWA overhaul base and something to do with the desire of KC leaders at that time to counter-balance the southward move of jobs and people. But jobs and people continued to march southward, and the airport is IMO in an inconvenient spot for the metro. Complete removal is not in the cards however.

If KC experiences additional heavy growth in JoCo, then perhaps in 20 years, a few airlines may operate flights out of New Century, similar to the way that the LA region supports multiple airports, each about 25-40 miles apart.
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Old 01-06-2014, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
10,705 posts, read 18,493,517 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westender View Post
The airport is not going to move. But I do think where it is, and the siting decisions back in the late 1960s, were sprawl-spreading errors.

If the airport were to be sited somewhere closer to the population growth, the optimal choice would be Richards-Gebaur. The road infrastructure would need the least re-work. New Century is too far west and relies solely on I-35.

The site location of the current airport had something to do with the already-existing TWA overhaul base and something to do with the desire of KC leaders at that time to counter-balance the southward move of jobs and people. But jobs and people continued to march southward, and the airport is IMO in an inconvenient spot for the metro. Complete removal is not in the cards however.

If KC experiences additional heavy growth in JoCo, then perhaps in 20 years, a few airlines may operate flights out of New Century, similar to the way that the LA region supports multiple airports, each about 25-40 miles apart.
I agree with RG being a better location for the metro but only slightly. I still don't see what is wrong with KCI's location. Do people in South County St Louis complain about the location of Lambert as much as people in JoCo complain about the location of KCI?

Personally, I think KCI's location is fine. It took 40 years, but the area around KCI is really nice today and getting better every year. Barry Road, Tiffany Springs etc are nice suburban areas. And again, the airport is in the backyard of the 350,000 people that live in the Northland and is extremely convenient to St Joe, another 100k. Also, one of the biggest users of KCI is Fort Leavenworth and they are very close. And KCI is very close to the central city. 15-20 minutes is close especially because you can drive 70mph most the way and there is never traffic. It's not close to JoCo, Cass County burbs or Lee's Summit. If you fly a lot, don't live in areas like that or don't complain about how far it is. And I don't see KC getting a second airport with commercial flights. I think you have to hit a population of well over 5 million before that even becomes an option and KC won't hit that for a century or more, if it ever does. It will take ten years just to bring KCI out of the 1960's.
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Old 01-06-2014, 04:10 PM
 
12,607 posts, read 14,609,308 times
Reputation: 14096
Downtown KCK would be a good place for an airport. There's nothing worthwhile down there anyway, and it would be a central location.
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