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Old 06-17-2014, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,164 posts, read 27,104,380 times
Reputation: 10428

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Quote:
Originally Posted by luzianne View Post
When we were in San Francisco someone told us that they spend I think they said $340,000 a DAY on the homeless. So I can see why they would go there. There were homeless people following people down the street, ranting at them about their lot in life.

I actually didn't see any homeless people when I was in downtown Denver. Maybe I just missed it, but there were a lot of people out and about; I just didn't notice any homeless people.

There were big plans for Prairie Village a few years ago, before the economy tanked, to turn 75th Street into a Boulevard with parking on both sides of the street and shops along 75th Street, and also to redo the Village and Corinth shopping centers, with new shops and possibly housing above the shops and I think they even mentioned a condo at one time. The 75th Street corridor plan was put on hold, but they are doing a lot at Corinth and now also the Village. Corinth is busy all the time now. There are several new restaurants there and they remodeled the grocery store.

I don't know what the plan is for 75th Street now. I think they are doing something now from Mission Road to State Line, but the original plan was to go all the way to Lamar (I think. Maybe it was Nall) to State Line, take out houses on both sides of the road, make the road wider, and add shops along 75th. I actually think that would be a good thing.

I know a lot of houses in Mission Hills are being bought and torn down and new homes built on the site because people like the location. Must be nice to have enough money to buy a Mission Hills house, tear it down, and build a new house!
That's interesting, and would make sense for 75th St. I personally wouldn't want to live on such a busy street, so retail would be great. I used to go with my grandfather to the Corinth shops as a little kid - great memories!

I think people now appreciate Prairie Village for it's unique, sort of "New England" feel. You can't replicate that. And with new types of people moving in, they may be more open to change.

I noticed all the "scrape-offs" in Mission Hills last summer. Another very unique city, if you can afford it. Old money, near the Plaza. Beautiful area! I went trick-or-treating in Mission Hills once because we thought we'd get better treats lol! We did get baseball gear from Ewing Kaufman's mansion. But the Russel Stover mansion was't giving out Russel Stover candy
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Old 06-17-2014, 08:52 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
11,108 posts, read 23,715,042 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xenokc View Post
^I agree with the core premise of pretty much everything he says and have probably traveled the world more broadly than he has. But he takes a knife twisting approach sometimes (toward legitimate issues in KC) that almost comes across as flamebait then alters it with a pro-KC post. I have a bipolar relative who takes the exact same approach, finding the wounded spots (that are indeed real) then drag it in dirt for everyone to see, using 'just trying to have a conversation' tactics. He hasn't live in KC for what, 5 years and is self-proclaimed expert on KC (or all things urban that KC is doing wrong). Is relentless with the knife twisting and then a half-hearted compliment here and there. It's just his style.

I do agree with all weaknesses of KC he points out though, just not the knife twisting approach he takes to 'discuss' it in his view and the CoC sugar coated view that he thinks I only have. I really like the progress that is being made in the City core - yeah, it's not at the rate of other cities and some errors are still made but I am really enjoying the progress there is so are others including many who moved here from larger markets. He's been away too long to understand and just sees where it's not as ideal as other cities and makes sure we know that, using a jagged knife. But I also agree with him KC has too many anti-urban suburban people (like you) compared to metros that are progressing at a faster rate.
Well, we differ yes, but I really do think we are on the same page. Yea, I can be pretty hard core and probably come across as too aggressive. But honestly, that's the only way people take notice. Your approach is the opposite "chamber of commerce" viewpoint with glossy photos and Forbes links. We keep each other in check.

However I will disagree with you on one thing. Just because I don't live in KC doesn't mean I'm not still fully in touch with the city and metro. Yea, I will admit, I may be getting a bit out of touch with the "vibe" of the people there (like what people say over lunch or at the water cooler about the area.). But as far as urban planning, metro wide projects etc, I don't know that I could be more in touch. It's in my blood.

Oh and by the way. Today, I helped a fellow co-worker lay out a vacation in KC. They were going for another reason and were going to pretty much skip KC. Now they have a full 3-4 day itinerary of things they are excited to do in KC, I even recommended the Village West attractions because they have kids and thought some of that might be of interest.

So I don't hate KC. Just want it to be better and know it can be better...
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Old 06-18-2014, 12:30 AM
 
634 posts, read 892,383 times
Reputation: 852
Quote:
Originally Posted by xenokc View Post
I would look to Seattle and Minneapolis as well-balanced urban/suburban cities, not Chicago or Detroit. I agree with most economists that strong metros need a strong city core. In order to have a strong city core, it needs metro wide support, which KC too often lacks.
I am not sure seattle would have the balance if the "east side" were in a different state or county. However, unlike kcmo, everybody likes downtown seattle, no matter how great they fancy their own suburb.

Puget Sound also recognizes their dependence on other regions of the metro, perhaps because of the many lessons learned from the ramifications of a Boeing strike and lacking a diversified economy. In the old days if Boeing sneezed, the entire metro economy caught a cold and it took decades to alleviate it. Nowadays there is more of a team player we're all in this together atmosphere as opposed to an us vs them situation.
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Old 06-18-2014, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,164 posts, read 27,104,380 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garethe View Post
I am not sure seattle would have the balance if the "east side" were in a different state or county. However, unlike kcmo, everybody likes downtown seattle, no matter how great they fancy their own suburb.

Puget Sound also recognizes their dependence on other regions of the metro, perhaps because of the many lessons learned from the ramifications of a Boeing strike and lacking a diversified economy. In the old days if Boeing sneezed, the entire metro economy caught a cold and it took decades to alleviate it. Nowadays there is more of a team player we're all in this together atmosphere as opposed to an us vs them situation.
I don't hear any negative attitudes toward downtown Denver either. Even if you live out in the suburbs, it's pretty hard to never go downtown, since so much is there. People throughout the metro area take pride in downtown and consider it "their own", even if they live in a different city.
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Old 06-18-2014, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Florida and the Rockies
1,962 posts, read 2,208,651 times
Reputation: 3299
Quote:
Originally Posted by denverian View Post
I went trick-or-treating in Mission Hills once because we thought we'd get better treats lol! We did get baseball gear from Ewing Kaufman's mansion. But the Russell Stover mansion was't giving out Russell Stover candy
I too remember Hallowe'en trick-or-treat in the 1970s in Mission Hills. Crosby Kemper gave me a regular-sized chocolate bar. He was a massive man -- always seemed much taller than other adults. Mayor Berkley's parents weren't answering the bell. And H.O. Peet, scion of a founding family of Colgate-Palmolive, had gone to bed (it couldn't have been later than eight o'clock). The maid was awake, still in full, frilly regalia, and she let me into the kitchen -- institutionally sized -- to warm dinner leftovers to eat, a request which I gladly obliged.

Last edited by westender; 06-18-2014 at 11:22 AM..
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Old 06-18-2014, 12:23 PM
 
1,830 posts, read 3,778,939 times
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Biz Journal posted another article about this though I question the source (KC Workforce)..
More economic data - Kansas City Business Journal

They need to go direct to the source (Bureau of Labor Stats - the Feds). KC Workforce says unemployment is over 6% but BLS shows 5.6% for April - might be seasonal adjustment. Although unemployment rate is often criticized by economists as a poor way to measure, direct employment growth makes more sense. May data should come out any day now and they tend to update previous month as well...

Kansas City, MO-KS Economy at a Glance

The per cap GDP is also a much better factor to measure economy. US avg GDP 2012 was about $45K per cap, KC was above avg at $48K, comparable to San Diego, Nashville and higher than Atlanta. 2013 data isn't out yet. STL is way down there, comparable to service industry cities.

However so far in 2014, even though the KC employment growth is still there it isn't at the same pace as hot markets and not like early last decade. It's not bad, just not at same pace. I imagine KC per cap GDP will still be above US avg in the end but for various reasons discussed, it's not at the same pace as other cities lately. Could easily change either direction though - depends on what happens with possible Sprint losses, and significant upcoming Cerner gains. And of course KS needs to focus on bringing in new jobs to metro, not siphon jobs from MO side.

Per cap GDP... US Avg is about $45K...
http://www.bea.gov/iTable/drilldown....ill=1&nRange=5

Last edited by xenokc; 06-18-2014 at 12:49 PM..
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Old 06-18-2014, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
495 posts, read 771,247 times
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So much generalization in this thread it's laughable. Sure, things change slow in KC, it's in the midwest, where things, well generally are slower paced....duh. But to hear Menverian and Garethe spew these silly, over the top comments is annoying. According to Menverian, everybody loves going to downtown Denver, even the millions that live in the outer suburbs. I'm sure he's talked to every one of them before he states such generalizations. And according to Garethe, all 4m people that live in the Seattle area all love their downtown, not one complaint...hmmm. Then tell me Gatethe, why wouldn't the great people of Seattle approve a new arena downtown? And if they all loved downtown so much, then why was attendance at the Sonics games so low that the franchise was moved to OKC?
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Old 06-18-2014, 01:15 PM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,164 posts, read 27,104,380 times
Reputation: 10428
Quote:
Originally Posted by shindig View Post
So much generalization in this thread it's laughable. Sure, things change slow in KC, it's in the midwest, where things, well generally are slower paced....duh. But to hear Menverian and Garethe spew these silly, over the top comments is annoying. According to Menverian, everybody loves going to downtown Denver, even the millions that live in the outer suburbs. I'm sure he's talked to every one of them before he states such generalizations. And according to Garethe, all 4m people that live in the Seattle area all love their downtown, not one complaint...hmmm. Then tell me Gatethe, why wouldn't the great people of Seattle approve a new arena downtown? And if they all loved downtown so much, then why was attendance at the Sonics games so low that the franchise was moved to OKC?
Well "dinshig", I obviously didn't mean every single person in a metro area of over 3 million loves downtown Denver. But it seems quite apparent that in Denver, there's a very different attitude toward downtown than in KC. There's a much more positive attitude toward downtown Denver than you find in KC. I hear it from coworkers who live way out in the 'burbs. They don't avoid downtown, or claim its a ghetto. They actually go there, and aren't complaining about it.
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Old 06-18-2014, 01:25 PM
 
1,830 posts, read 3,778,939 times
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So more on per cap GDP (Gross Domestic Product), is interesting to see overall per cap increases for many small markets while many large markets fell a few notches from 2006 to 2012. Metro Atlanta, Denver and MSP fell in per cap GDP over period and while KC is only just above US avg, KC actually gained a bit. Of course fast growing population can do this to hot markets.

2006 (before economy tanked)
http://www.bea.gov/iTable/drilldown....ill=1&nRange=5

2012
http://www.bea.gov/iTable/drilldown....ill=1&nRange=5
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Old 06-18-2014, 01:30 PM
 
1,830 posts, read 3,778,939 times
Reputation: 534
Quote:
Originally Posted by denverian View Post
Well "dinshig", I obviously didn't mean every single person in a metro area of over 3 million loves downtown Denver. But it seems quite apparent that in Denver, there's a very different attitude toward downtown than in KC. There's a much more positive attitude toward downtown Denver than you find in KC. I hear it from coworkers who live way out in the 'burbs. They don't avoid downtown, or claim its a ghetto. They actually go there, and aren't complaining about it.
Well downtown KC does attract a lot of people from the burbs now with all kinds of downtown activities. You can go to any cultural events in KCMO and see half JoCo plates alone. There's constant events now. But otherwise I would agree that Denver metro overall probably thinks more positively towards 'the city' than most of KC metro burbs. It is starting to change in KC as the city really is improving and more suburban people are figuring that out - but still plenty anti-urban out there.
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