Is Kansas City's affordability overstated? (Washington, Nevada: sales, real estate, apartment complex)

[Bluefox]

Obviously housing and gas (for transportation) are low here and housing is the biggest factor but after looking at how much I've paid out in taxes this past year, all I have to say is wow. And I'm not even a homeowner. The state income tax is more on the high end for the bracket I'm in, but it's not just that. The base sales tax is 8.5% in the city but in some districts it goes to nearly 12%. I paid 11.74% sales tax on a Subway sandwich yesterday at Zona Rosa. And this is the only place I've lived that taxes groceries. I could see justifying having high income tax OR high sales tax, but both? And lest we forget the personal property tax which is separate from vehicle tag registration cost. And oh yeah, of course the CITY tax that has been almost $700 for me this year. I could almost be okay with all of it but I have no idea where any of this money is going. For example, I don't even have recycling service in my apartment complex on the Plaza, and when I lived in Westport I believe the building contracted with a private party, and we had to recycle glass on our separately which is a huge PITA. It's like seriously, you might as well just do it all yourself anyway than having a separate container for plastics/paper and a separate one for glass. Every other state I've lived in had full recycling.

Other things I've noticed: groceries are not cheap here, and can actually be quite expensive if you aren't mindful of or informed about where you shop. Utilities are not cheap here either. I don't understand why you have to pay a base fee which is not insubstantial even if you never use a utility.

Don't get me wrong, I really like Kansas City, but I do think that when you take into account all of the additional expenses like this, it really puts a dent in the "affordability" factor, in addition to your wallet.

[shindig]

Yep I agree. All I want to know is where does all the money I pay in taxes go? It sure isn't road repair. I own a house in Waldo and the sidewalks are up to the homeowners to repair or replace. How fvcking ridiculous is that when the giant Oak trees that the City owns and planted are the main reason the sidewalks are all buckled in my neighborhood. Freaking pisses me off. I pay over $2,500 in property taxes for my house a year, plus another $300 for my car and nothing gets done. Hell can't even get the streets plowed until 2 days after a snowstorm.

And yes, groceries are expensive, bit I think that is a global thing. Sometimes I think it would be cheaper to just eat out...lol

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by Bluefox

Obviously housing and gas (for transportation) are low here and housing is the biggest factor but after looking at how much I've paid out in taxes this past year, all I have to say is wow. And I'm not even a homeowner. The state income tax is more on the high end for the bracket I'm in, but it's not just that. The base sales tax is 8.5% in the city but in some districts it goes to nearly 12%. I paid 11.74% sales tax on a Subway sandwich yesterday at Zona Rosa. And this is the only place I've lived that taxes groceries. I could see justifying having high income tax OR high sales tax, but both? And lest we forget the personal property tax which is separate from vehicle tag registration cost. And oh yeah, of course the CITY tax that has been almost $700 for me this year. I could almost be okay with all of it but I have no idea where any of this money is going. For example, I don't even have recycling service in my apartment complex on the Plaza, and when I lived in Westport I believe the building contracted with a private party, and we had to recycle glass on our separately which is a huge PITA. It's like seriously, you might as well just do it all yourself anyway than having a separate container for plastics/paper and a separate one for glass. Every other state I've lived in had full recycling.

Other things I've noticed: groceries are not cheap here, and can actually be quite expensive if you aren't mindful of or informed about where you shop. Utilities are not cheap here either. I don't understand why you have to pay a base fee which is not insubstantial even if you never use a utility.

Don't get me wrong, I really like Kansas City, but I do think that when you take into account all of the additional expenses like this, it really puts a dent in the "affordability" factor, in addition to your wallet.

Very few states have a very high quality of life while also being "very low tax." I do have a problem with regressive taxes like sales taxes on food, high income taxes for lower to middle income bracket individuals, and high vehicle registration fees. Housing costs will increase further wherever you have faster population growth and income growth, fairly strong correlation minus any strong uptick in inventory via newer construction. Other states get their taxes through high property taxes whilst not having income taxes at all. There are only a handful of states that do not have income taxes, those include: Alaska, Washington, Nevada, Wyoming, South Dakota, Texas, Florida, Tennessee (taxes interest and dividends), and New Hampshire (taxes interest and dividends).
I will NOT EVEN CONSIDER living in a state that taxes grocery items, it makes me that angry.

[Bluefox]

Originally Posted by GraniteStater

Very few states have a very high quality of life while also being "very low tax." I do have a problem with regressive taxes like sales taxes on food, high income taxes for lower to middle income bracket individuals, and high vehicle registration fees. Housing costs will increase further wherever you have faster population growth and income growth, fairly strong correlation minus any strong uptick in inventory via newer construction. Other states get their taxes through high property taxes whilst not having income taxes at all. There are only a handful of states that do not have income taxes, those include: Washington, Nevada, Wyoming, South Dakota, Texas, Florida, Tennessee (taxes interest and dividends), and New Hampshire (taxes interest and dividends).
I will NOT EVEN CONSIDER living in a state that taxes grocery items, it makes me that angry.

I understand the QOL/tax correlation, but my thing is that I'm not sure how much the taxes I'm paying is really translating in to a higher QOL. And I know that state income tax is a given in the vast majority of states, but that's normally offset, in my experience, by sales tax. Either the income tax is high and sales tax low (i.e. San Diego, CA), or both are moderate, or sales tax high and income tax lower or nonexistent (i.e. Chicago, IL or Seattle, WA). In KC, income tax when you combine city/state is over 7% which is fairly high considering it's effectively a flat tax rate, coupled with sales taxes of between 8.5-12%.

[Okey Dokie]

I'll point out that the only sales tax on groceries (in MO) are all the county/city add ons. The state portion of the sales tax is not charged on groceries.

My biggest gripes are the ridiculous sales taxes in the TIF areas like Zona Rosa, 152 and Flintlock, etc. and my ever-increasing KCMO water bill, which was $72.00 last month for a 2 person household.

[TabulaRasa]

At least there IS glass recycling now, via Ripple. When I moved here in 2007, there wasn't even that option.

[CrownVic95]

The short answer is NO. Anyone who doubts KC's affordability needs a "big picture" perspective refresh with a housing search here in the Bay area.

Home sharing, room renting, has long been a very common scenario here as homes have been out of reach for the average person for decades. Today, apartments are in the same category with 1-bedroom rents in decent (not upscale, just decent) neighborhoods well in excess of $2000. Decent room rentals exceed $1000....and that's if you share a bath. You want your own room and bath? Not gonna happen for anything much below $1400.

As a result, more and more average income workers are sharing rooms - yes, many cannot even afford a ROOM of their own anymore....much less a bathroom of their own.

Some of you - I'd venture most of you - would pay your entire income (or more) here to match the housing you have (and take for granted) in KC. I say take for granted because I've been there....and understand so well what I took for granted in the KC area.

One can fret over being nickeled and dimed by taxes in the heartland....OR....they can move to a major coastal metro for a quick reminder of what expensive really means.

[Okey Dokie]

Originally Posted by CrownVic95

The short answer is NO. Anyone who doubts KC's affordability needs a "big picture" perspective refresh with a housing search here in the Bay area.

Home sharing, room renting, has long been a very common scenario here as homes have been out of reach for the average person for decades. Today, apartments are in the same category with 1-bedroom rents in decent (not upscale, just decent) neighborhoods well in excess of $2000. Decent room rentals exceed $1000....and that's if you share a bath. You want your own room and bath? Not gonna happen for anything much below $1400.

As a result, more and more average income workers are sharing rooms - yes, many cannot even afford a ROOM of their own anymore....much less a bathroom of their own.

Some of you - I'd venture most of you - would pay your entire income (or more) here to match the housing you have (and take for granted) in KC. I say take for granted because I've been there....and understand so well what I took for granted in the KC area.

One can fret over being nickeled and dimed by taxes in the heartland....OR....they can move to a major coastal metro for a quick reminder of what expensive really means.

Of course your point is well taken, I guess we are concerned that our long standing perception of having "low taxes" is slowly being nickel and dimed to death.

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by Okey Dokie

Of course your point is well taken, I guess we are concerned that our long standing perception of having "low taxes" is slowly being nickel and dimed to death.

I would argue some of the sales taxes via the TIF districts are severely regressive due to the fact that developers should be fronting the bill entirely for these retail districts. Residents should not have to pay sales taxes over 10% just to pay for ridiculous developments that are often not needed at all. Follow the money trail, meaning special interests (construction, real estate speculators, and insider connections (politics).

[Ztonyg]

Originally Posted by GraniteStater

I would argue some of the sales taxes via the TIF districts are severely regressive due to the fact that developers should be fronting the bill entirely for these retail districts. Residents should not have to pay sales taxes over 10% just to pay for ridiculous developments that are often not needed at all. Follow the money trail, meaning special interests (construction, real estate speculators, and insider connections (politics).

The problem with TIF districts is that developers know that the money is out there to be had. If one city doesn't create a TIF district, the next city over will create one and the development will be moved there. The only way to stop it is to pass laws at the state level but that likely will not happen.