U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Happy Easter!
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Missouri > Kansas City
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 06-30-2016, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
10,713 posts, read 18,581,602 times
Reputation: 5445

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwiksell View Post
I get why you mostly agree with this. But there's a big difference in Kansas City between what "should" be doable, and what actually is. That's why the streetcar is so instrumental. It bridges that gap.

And we can fantasize all we want about a light rail network from Waldo to the airport and points between, but you know better than anybody that the (lack of) density will not support it.
Let me be clear. I fully support the streetcar and actually think a well done streetcar system is actually BETTER for urban development than a full blown light rail line which is more for commuters and longer trips. The streetcar is for those people already in the city that don't need to be convinced that urban investment is a good thing.

The Main Street Streetcar (especially once it goes to the plaza) is actually preferable in that corridor to light rail. It's scaled better for the urban fabric of the city. It's for short trips within the urban core.

I don't get why somebody that wants a larger light rail system can't see the very positive benefits of modern streetcar lines.

It's not "embarrassing". It's a worthy investment by the city.

That said.

Transit should be funded by a more regional mechanism or at least city wide. Light rail and better buses should be part of the plan. But due to the lack of congestion on highways etc, a robust central city streetcar and bus system should be the priority. The problem is people that live in SKC, Northland, even the east side don't always get the big picture and see how the economics of a vibrant urban core trickle back to them.

Keep expanding the streetcar. It's great for KC. However, light rail would work in KC along I-70 to Blue Springs and I-35 to Olathe. Commuter rail is stupid for the most part in a city like KC. It's just not worth it to move a few hundred people a day from suburban parking lots to the city when buses can do the same in less time for far less money.

Actual light rail along 70 and 35 running every 10-15 minutes all day long, serving the stadiums and the main corridors of the two largest counties in the metro is a totally different story. It will cost a lot more, but you would get much more back in return in transit oriented development, moving people other than just commuters (but even more commuters than commuter rail) and redeveloping older ares of the metro.

The streetcar should compliment a light rail system running from Olathe to Blue Springs with a hub at union station combined with a "rapid flyer" coach bus BRT line to KCI airport from the Union Station hub.

Last edited by kcmo; 06-30-2016 at 01:57 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-11-2016, 12:07 PM
 
2,195 posts, read 2,161,464 times
Reputation: 1916
Nearly 50,000 passengers last week. So much for the "backlash".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-11-2016, 01:01 PM
 
1,298 posts, read 990,598 times
Reputation: 658
Quote:
Originally Posted by s.davis View Post
Nearly 50,000 passengers last week. So much for the "backlash".
Sure, but just think about the number of people who didn't ride it!

I think the public has spoken.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-13-2016, 05:07 AM
 
3 posts, read 1,276 times
Reputation: 15
Default The old ridership trick

Quote:
Originally Posted by s.davis View Post
Nearly 50,000 passengers last week. So much for the "backlash".
Come on! That's an all week total and it included Independence Day weekend. Honest transit ridership is usually measured by weekday ADR (average daily ridership) and weekends and holidays are typically not included in comparative counts. Please don't try to pull that weekly ridership trick -- especially on a holiday week -- on readers.

Last edited by Mechthild; 07-13-2016 at 05:20 AM.. Reason: wording
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-13-2016, 12:49 PM
 
Location: KCMO (Plaza)
290 posts, read 231,920 times
Reputation: 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechthild View Post
Come on! That's an all week total and it included Independence Day weekend. Honest transit ridership is usually measured by weekday ADR (average daily ridership) and weekends and holidays are typically not included in comparative counts. Please don't try to pull that weekly ridership trick -- especially on a holiday week -- on readers.
The critiques of this system are getting asinine. For everyone that thinks fixed rail transportation options are a ridiculous boondoggle, have any of you left the KC area and used rail based public transportation? You have St. Louis, Denver, and Chicago pretty close by, they're filled with 'boondoggles' I guess that certainly started with a starter line as is found in downtown Kansas City.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-13-2016, 01:02 PM
 
1,298 posts, read 990,598 times
Reputation: 658
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechthild View Post
Come on! That's an all week total and it included Independence Day weekend. Honest transit ridership is usually measured by weekday ADR (average daily ridership) and weekends and holidays are typically not included in comparative counts. Please don't try to pull that weekly ridership trick -- especially on a holiday week -- on readers.
How about if you make more than 2 posts on City-Data before lashing out at other users?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-13-2016, 01:04 PM
 
1,298 posts, read 990,598 times
Reputation: 658
Quote:
Originally Posted by PA650 View Post
The critiques of this system are getting asinine. For everyone that thinks fixed rail transportation options are a ridiculous boondoggle, have any of you left the KC area and used rail based public transportation? You have St. Louis, Denver, and Chicago pretty close by, they're filled with 'boondoggles' I guess that certainly started with a starter line as is found in downtown Kansas City.
Well said, but using Chicago as an example doesn't make any sense. They've been using fixed rail transportation options since the very beginning, and is very central to their identity as a city. It's the reason their downtown area is called The Loop.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-13-2016, 01:25 PM
 
2,195 posts, read 2,161,464 times
Reputation: 1916
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechthild View Post
...That's an all week total and it included Independence Day weekend. Honest transit ridership is usually measured by weekday ADR (average daily ridership) and weekends and holidays are typically not included in comparative counts. Please don't try to pull that weekly ridership trick -- especially on a holiday week -- on readers.
Yes, that was quite clear. Making it only a "trick" if you're reading comprehension skills are sub-8th grade level. One of the words you need to familiarize yourself with is "honest". Also, probably "comparative", since nothing was compared. Also, "trick", I guess.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-13-2016, 07:14 PM
 
12,635 posts, read 14,674,191 times
Reputation: 14180
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwiksell View Post
How about if you make more than 2 posts on City-Data before lashing out at other users?

Well, to be fair, I see posters ALL THE TIME come in here on their first (and sometimes only) post to say KC needs a new airport or urban KC is great or Missouri is good/Kansas is bad. So I don't see a problem with this poster giving their thoughts about how streetcar ridership is measured on their first post.


And...does he have a point? Is weekday ridership generally what is tabulated and not weekends/holidays? Do people actually ride the streetcar to get to/from work, or only for something fun (and free) to try?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-13-2016, 08:55 PM
 
Location: KCMO (Plaza)
290 posts, read 231,920 times
Reputation: 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwiksell View Post
Well said, but using Chicago as an example doesn't make any sense. They've been using fixed rail transportation options since the very beginning, and is very central to their identity as a city. It's the reason their downtown area is called The Loop.
Good point, but I wanted to use another Midwestern example. With that in mind, the starter line of Chicago of course is not recent at all, yet the 'L' started somewhere and grew to what it is today. The KC streetcar can no doubt grow as a local, slower form of travel in the urban core and then transition to a dedicated right of way and act as more of a metro wide transportation option with faster travel times more in line with a light rail system.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Missouri > Kansas City
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top