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Old 05-09-2016, 01:24 PM
 
2,195 posts, read 2,145,372 times
Reputation: 1916

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Quote:
Originally Posted by luzianne View Post
Oh, my mistake. I didn't realize it said bus. I thought he was referring to streetcar. I would take streetcar if I could park at Union Station and wanted to go to the river market. I would not take the bus; I'd rather drive.
Got it, I think there are a lot of people like that, and I'm glad KC is providing that option. I primarily take the bus, have for many years (though I have no dogmatic objection to personal autos, and I use mine when I want), and even I have transferred at US from the MAX to the streetcar the last 3 times I've been downtown, and imagine I will continue to. Even with the transfer its faster and more pleasant.
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Old 05-09-2016, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Kansas City MO
204 posts, read 182,223 times
Reputation: 311
Maybe the streetcar is not ideal, or even frankly, kind of a joke at this point, and if it doesn't expand it will be minimally effective. but the same people that are saying that this is a boondoggle are the ones who are doing their damndest to see that it does not expand to where it will be an integral part of the city's transportation infrastructure.
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Old 05-09-2016, 05:28 PM
 
519 posts, read 467,990 times
Reputation: 325
I work downtown, on Locust, I walked down to 9th and Main and caught the streetcar to Power and Light for lunch at Burger King. Streetcar was great. I loved it, wished we had it all over Kansas City and into the suburbs, where I live. It was standing room only, nice people all laughing and enjoying it. They were downtown workers and visitors, all seem to be enjoying it. I don't ride the bus and I won't. I would ride streetcar/lightrail. My co-workers are a cross section of people. The ones who live in the city, live in the areas where the proposed streetcar extension was up for vote and failed. These co-workers are all against the streetcar system, they don't want to pay taxes for it, but what was the most telling of listening to their conversation was they don't want monies being spent on downtown improvements or anything with Crown Center/Midtown or the Plaza area. They hate the northland because they are afraid city monies are going to spent up there. They want the monies KC spend to be for services to residents on the east side. They want the status quo for the east side. I now, will only eat at restaurants on the streetcar line to support those residents and business who took a chance with the streetcar system. I have another post going to the KCI thread on what I found out from co-workers and their feelings towards a single terminal.
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Old 05-09-2016, 05:36 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
7,650 posts, read 5,638,332 times
Reputation: 7496
Quote:
Originally Posted by s.davis View Post
Even sillier is a grown man regurgitating tired talking points from the anti-transit playbook as though it's a profound and salient argument against transit project in a city he does not reside in.
My comments are not represented to be profound or even arguments, salient or otherwise. They are just what I think. "Regurgitated tired talking points" is, no doubt, something you heard said by someone you think is really cool....and you wanna look really cool too. Ironic, isn't it? And ultimately transparent.

You're right about one thing. I was silly enough to rep you recently. Back to ignore you go.
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Old 05-09-2016, 10:58 PM
 
Location: KCMO (Plaza)
290 posts, read 230,070 times
Reputation: 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovekcmo View Post
I work downtown, on Locust, I walked down to 9th and Main and caught the streetcar to Power and Light for lunch at Burger King. Streetcar was great. I loved it, wished we had it all over Kansas City and into the suburbs, where I live. It was standing room only, nice people all laughing and enjoying it. They were downtown workers and visitors, all seem to be enjoying it. I don't ride the bus and I won't. I would ride streetcar/lightrail. My co-workers are a cross section of people. The ones who live in the city, live in the areas where the proposed streetcar extension was up for vote and failed. These co-workers are all against the streetcar system, they don't want to pay taxes for it, but what was the most telling of listening to their conversation was they don't want monies being spent on downtown improvements or anything with Crown Center/Midtown or the Plaza area. They hate the northland because they are afraid city monies are going to spent up there. They want the monies KC spend to be for services to residents on the east side. They want the status quo for the east side. I now, will only eat at restaurants on the streetcar line to support those residents and business who took a chance with the streetcar system. I have another post going to the KCI thread on what I found out from co-workers and their feelings towards a single terminal.
Thankfully, I believe a transit development district (TDD) will pass and it will be extended to the Plaza. The west of Troost area voted in favor of extending it in the city wide election, but the East Side didn't want it. Unfortunately, when it's extended and even more economic development occurs on the line, I feel the East Side of the city will then complain that they were unfairly left out of the process. You can't win with some people. Thank you for your observations.
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Old 05-10-2016, 12:14 PM
 
2,195 posts, read 2,145,372 times
Reputation: 1916
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovekcmo View Post
they don't want monies being spent on downtown improvements or anything with Crown Center/Midtown or the Plaza area. They hate the northland because they are afraid city monies are going to spent up there. They want the monies KC spend to be for services to residents on the east side. They want the status quo for the east side.
Tell them the truth:

The city spends a great deal of money on the east side, much more proportionally than the east side contributes to the tax base. In the last 5 years the city has directly invested more in development on the east side than it has in downtown, and the east side commands most of our public safety resources (4 of the six police stations are east of Troost, 34 of the cities 65 fire and ambulance companies are east of Troost) which is the biggest part of the KC budget. Meanwhile, the east side accounts for less than 25% of municipal revenue.

And without a sea change (like the east side streetcar expansion could have been) there are and will be very few development proposals east of Troost for the city to incent. And the population continues declining east of Troost at Rust-belt level rates, meaning there are fewer and fewer taxpayers every year in that part of town, fewer and fewer voters, and less and less reason for the city to continue spending so much of the money generated west of Troost propping up the east side.

Also, tell the the truth about the airport:

If you don't use it, you won't be paying for any upgrades/changes.

And the streetcar:

If you don't live or shop downtown, you don't pay for it either.
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Old 05-10-2016, 12:24 PM
 
2,195 posts, read 2,145,372 times
Reputation: 1916
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownVic95 View Post
Back to ignore you go.
Nothing says "not silly" and "grown-up" like putting your fingers in your ears and hollering "I can't hear you"...
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Old 05-10-2016, 01:50 PM
 
519 posts, read 467,990 times
Reputation: 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by s.davis View Post
Tell them the truth:

The city spends a great deal of money on the east side, much more proportionally than the east side contributes to the tax base. In the last 5 years the city has directly invested more in development on the east side than it has in downtown, and the east side commands most of our public safety resources (4 of the six police stations are east of Troost, 34 of the cities 65 fire and ambulance companies are east of Troost) which is the biggest part of the KC budget. Meanwhile, the east side accounts for less than 25% of municipal revenue.

And without a sea change (like the east side streetcar expansion could have been) there are and will be very few development proposals east of Troost for the city to incent. And the population continues declining east of Troost at Rust-belt level rates, meaning there are fewer and fewer taxpayers every year in that part of town, fewer and fewer voters, and less and less reason for the city to continue spending so much of the money generated west of Troost propping up the east side.

Also, tell the the truth about the airport:

If you don't use it, you won't be paying for any upgrades/changes.

And the streetcar:

If you don't live or shop downtown, you don't pay for it either.
In today's paper there is an article about the city buying the Linwood Shopping Center. Any businesses that will venture there would have benefitted from the streetcar. The one thing my coworkers aren't happy about on the east side is the new police station, although they all complain the crime. They think KC should invest more services into the east side, when I ask, it's cheaper bus fair, lower property taxes, cheaper water and electricity and gas. They don't see the big picture for all of KC to move forward, not do they care. And they all seem to wish Emmanuel Cleaver was still mayor and couldn't name the mayors since or before Cleaver, with Mayor James they are so-so towards him. Property taxes going up they blame on all the condo's/apartments now downtown and people moving into the city from the suburbs buying up homes in Beacon Hill, Hyde Park, etc and rehabbing them making the prices and property taxes go up. The airport, they'll never be on board for and you'll never be able to convince them that it's not paid for by taxes. Sad, but true.
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Old 05-10-2016, 01:55 PM
 
519 posts, read 467,990 times
Reputation: 325
I rode the streetcar again today for lunch-to Minsky's pizza at River Market. I'm going to try to use the streetcar as much as possible to pick up lunch at someplace along the route to support the streetcar and the businesses as much as possible. I will make sure not to stop and patronize any businesses, not even gas, on Independence Ave, Prospect (use to stop at the McDonalds off I70) or Linwood or 31st. Let those businesses fail.
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Old 05-10-2016, 02:26 PM
 
2,195 posts, read 2,145,372 times
Reputation: 1916
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovekcmo View Post
Property taxes going up they blame on all the condo's/apartments now downtown and people moving into the city from the suburbs buying up homes in Beacon Hill, Hyde Park, etc and rehabbing them making the prices and property taxes go up.
Property taxes (which are low in KCMO) go up because we are still maintaining infrastructure on the east side built to serve 250k residents when less than half that many live there now.

A road costs per mile, the fewer people live on each mile, the more it cost each of them to pay for it.
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