Why is the streetcar getting so much backlash? (Kansas City, Lee's Summit: buy, theater)

[MidWestCityNative]

The streetcars have just started running through downtown, and you would think KC metro residents would be excited...but there seem to be quite a few people (maybe a just a vocal minority?) who seem very pissed; mainly in response to what Mayor James said in response to critics, "There are always gonna be doubters. Let 'em go their own way".

https://www.facebook.com/kshbtv/phot...type=3&theater

^As you can see on Facebook, it seems like a lot of KC residents are not very happy. Most of the arguments against the streetcar are getting "thumbed up" a lot in the comment section. It's the same tired arguments..."a waste of money", "what about our public education system?", "nobody is going to ride it", "it's a failure from day one", etc, etc.

I had no idea the streetcar was dividing this city...I thought this was something most everyone was excited about. Don't the people of KC want to see this city grow up and improve the quality of our services (including public transportation)?

[SPonteKC]

While I would say that over 30,000 riders in less than 3 days says a lot more about how excited KC is for even this modest advancement than 50 Facebook rants from the same anti-transit people who have been howling about the streetcar from the jump, I would also temper that by noting that transit spending is pretty unpopular in the metro generally, and that I don't think critics of the streetcar are in the minority city or metro wide. Many transit projects, even in considerably more urban metros than KC, and ones with longer, more developed histories of providing transit face stiff, vocal opposition. Transit use, in all but a couple cities in the US, is a niche market, and one that most Americans do not see much value in. KC, one of the smallest "big cities" in the country, just opened the first modern streetcar line in the Midwest (a region with notoriously weak transit and weak transit support), and it would be pretty foolish to expect that kind of change, in this kind of city, to be without a significant amount of naysayers, detractors and haters.

Some of their minds will change, many will not, but the streetcar will be there, it will be expanded to the Plaza eventually (which is honestly about all the light rail infrastructure KC needs for the foreseeable future), and the resistance to it, or any change, will fade with time and exposure until eventually it will just be the streetcar line that's always been on Main.

Meanwhile, the results of that investment are already evident to anyone not blinded by aversion to change, and they will only become more pronounced in the upcoming 10-15 years.

[luzianne]

I agree with the comments made by Greg Byron in response to Kevy Cat's post on this Facebook page. He is saying everything I have been saying or TRYING to say here about downtown/suburbs/MCI/public transportation/businesses on either side of the state line, etc.


https://www.facebook.com/groups/58116837932/?fref=nf

[SPonteKC]

Originally Posted by luzianne

I agree with the comments made by Greg Byron in response to Kevy Cat's post on this Facebook page. He is saying everything I have been saying or TRYING to say here about downtown/suburbs/MCI/public transportation/businesses on either side of the state line, etc.

I don't know that I see a whole lot of value in the opinions of people who do not live in KCMO on KCMO decisions. If people in Prairie Village or Lee's Summit don't think the streetcar is a good idea, they can just not build one in Lee's Summit or Prairie Village. If those places only want to provide one choice for how their citizens can get around, I think that's shortsighted, but I don't live there, so it's really not my business. I don't for a second buy the notion that the suburbs are self-sufficient, little "mini-downtowns" anymore than I buy the notion that metro KC would be a better place if everything outside the urban core ceased to exist.

I will say, though, that I am comforted that much (if not most) of the streetcar freak-out in metro KC is coming from the suburbs (including those in the city limits). The core of the city gets it, and the core's job is and always has been to make this city the kind of place that is cool enough to even have suburbs.

[Anzacosf]

Originally Posted by s.davis

I don't know that I see a whole lot of value in the opinions of people who do not live in KCMO on KCMO decisions. If people in Prairie Village or Lee's Summit don't think the streetcar is a good idea, they can just not build one in Lee's Summit or Prairie Village. If those places only want to provide one choice for how their citizens can get around, I think that's shortsighted, but I don't live there, so it's really not my business. I don't for a second buy the notion that the suburbs are self-sufficient, little "mini-downtowns" anymore than I buy the notion that metro KC would be a better place if everything outside the urban core ceased to exist.

I will say, though, that I am comforted that much (if not most) of the streetcar freak-out in metro KC is coming from the suburbs (including those in the city limits). The core of the city gets it, and the core's job is and always has been to make this city the kind of place that is cool enough to even have suburbs.

^ We share the same thoughts here. I myself could careless what Luzianne and other anti-change (anti-develop anything) suburbanites think about how things are ran in urban KCMO. Only thing these people need to remember KCMO will always be the cultural center of this metro whether you like (care to admit) it or not. I don't see people purposely come here to visit on the basis that suburbs here are great and worth a trip to.

[luzianne]

Originally Posted by s.davis

I don't know that I see a whole lot of value in the opinions of people who do not live in KCMO on KCMO decisions. If people in Prairie Village or Lee's Summit don't think the streetcar is a good idea, they can just not build one in Lee's Summit or Prairie Village. If those places only want to provide one choice for how their citizens can get around, I think that's shortsighted, but I don't live there, so it's really not my business. I don't for a second buy the notion that the suburbs are self-sufficient, little "mini-downtowns" anymore than I buy the notion that metro KC would be a better place if everything outside the urban core ceased to exist.

I will say, though, that I am comforted that much (if not most) of the streetcar freak-out in metro KC is coming from the suburbs (including those in the city limits). The core of the city gets it, and the core's job is and always has been to make this city the kind of place that is cool enough to even have suburbs.

Well, Kansas City does not consist of just the urban core. The opinion of other parts of the metro are valid because they DO affect the urban core. Just as the poster I mentioned said, there is really no reason to have everything concentrated in the core anymore. And if that's the way the majority of the people in the KC metro feel, then that does have an effect on urban KC, because people are going to continue to move out from the core instead of back to it.


And that one poster wasn't the only one with comments. One person said they rode the streetcar yesterday (I think) and it was worthless unless you were at Union Station and wanted to go to the city market or something.


I also thought the comments about us being a city that doesn't need a streetcar because we have highways built to get us anywhere in the city that function very well, whereas in other cities public transportation is more needed; we are just not that kind of city. And I hadn't though of that before, but again thought it was an interesting comment.


I think it would be great if it could get people from downtown to Brookside or at least the Plaza. It would really be great if it could go to the airport.

[PA650]

I rode it throughout Friday along with thousands of others. It's great to see it come together and provide an efficient and easy public transportation system to use to get through downtown. Even if the MAX did the same thing, I doubt someone from the suburbs would park at Union Station and take a bus to the River Market. This is a great starter line and will continue to drive economic development throughout the area. As for the complainers or Tony's KC crowd, really, let them complain. Downtown residents voted for it and got it built with the help of the federal government. Many Midtown residents support its extension and I have no doubt we will see it going to the Plaza in the next 5 years. In the end, there are a lot of young and old progressive minded people in the urban core that want to see the city succeed and become even better than what it is today. Those that dislike everything Sly James has done to position the city for a great future, well, they can continue to be curmudgeons on this and every other topic, yet I certainly hope they don't get in the way of progress.

[skrizzle]

Originally Posted by luzianne

Well, Kansas City does not consist of just the urban core. The opinion of other parts of the metro are valid because they DO affect the urban core. Just as the poster I mentioned said, there is really no reason to have everything concentrated in the core anymore. And if that's the way the majority of the people in the KC metro feel, then that does have an effect on urban KC, because people are going to continue to move out from the core instead of back to it.


And that one poster wasn't the only one with comments. One person said they rode the streetcar yesterday (I think) and it was worthless unless you were at Union Station and wanted to go to the city market or something.


I also thought the comments about us being a city that doesn't need a streetcar because we have highways built to get us anywhere in the city that function very well, whereas in other cities public transportation is more needed; we are just not that kind of city. And I hadn't though of that before, but again thought it was an interesting comment.


I think it would be great if it could get people from downtown to Brookside or at least the Plaza. It would really be great if it could go to the airport.

It makes tons of sense to have everything concentrated in the core. Everything already is. P&L, Sprint Center, River Market, Plaza, Westport, Nelson, Crown Center, etc... The list goes on and on. It's convenient to all the suburbs as well. I'm ok with there being a few things outside the core, but most stuff belongs there IMO. They can't build enough housing quick enough so many people are moving downtown.

I'd like to see the streetcar expand to the plaza, and light rail or commuter rail connect the suburbs.

[TabulaRasa]

I would be very surprised if it doesn't extend to the Plaza, ultimately.

[luzianne]

Originally Posted by PA650

I doubt someone from the suburbs would park at Union Station and take a bus to the River Market.

I would, if I wanted to go to the city market and parking at Union Station was easy (which it usually is). Parking at the city market on weekends can be a nightmare. I usually just go to the Overland Park farmer's market because it's closer, faster and easier. But if I'm with someone else who wants to go to the city market, I will go there.