U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Missouri > Kansas City
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-14-2016, 10:32 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
10,705 posts, read 18,516,721 times
Reputation: 5415

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by nycrite View Post
I hope so too. The question is, when will businesses actually choose to open for business downtown? I'm waiting (hoping) for some big announcement that never happens. Maybe KC will be an inverted metro where jobs are in suburbia and residential is concentrated downtown. That would be funny and sad.
It would be sad. Downtown needs jobs and lot of them. Even with a goal of 40,000 people living downtown, that's a very very small portion of the metro population and not enough to really create a bustling vibrant city alone. Downtown KC once had 150k to 200k jobs. I doubt it has more than 50-75k today. You can't replace 150,000 jobs with 20k residents and expect a total transformation. KC will simply switch from being a city that died a 5pm and was dead on weekends to a city that has some, but not much activity all the time. KC is fixing one problem (residential), but has created another (lack of jobs). Companies based downtown also drive hotel construction etc and the residential development downtown would probably be double what it is today if there were more jobs there.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-15-2016, 12:02 AM
 
Location: SoCal - Dana Point, CA
439 posts, read 581,961 times
Reputation: 982
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
It would be sad. Downtown needs jobs and lot of them. Downtown KC once had 150k to 200k jobs. I doubt it has more than 50-75k today. You can't replace 150,000 jobs with 20k residents and expect a total transformation. KC will simply switch from being a city that died a 5pm and was dead on weekends to a city that has some, but not much activity all the time. KC is fixing one problem (residential), but has created another (lack of jobs). Companies based downtown also drive hotel construction etc and the residential development downtown would probably be double what it is today if there were more jobs there.


That number is closer to 70k...and growing. Kansas City’s downtown might have the highest concentration of federal employees per capita of any U.S. city outside of DC, and close to 10k federal employees work within or adjacent to the downtown freeway loop. Add the growing number of Hotel & Restaurant employees, Property Management, White collar Financial Services jobs, Tech, Advertising, Start-ups, a few new Architecture firms, and lots of new Millennials w/o kids, 100k is doable by 2020. The evolution of the downtown area from a 9-to-5 workplace to a growing city core is one of the the main reasons for such rapid apartment construction.

And with all of the destructive economic and social policies in Kansas more companies will likely be moving over to KCMO and moving out of Kansas for good. Brownback's over the top tax cuts were extremely harmful and his poor decisions and draconian policies targeted too many good people and the firms they worked for. Under Brownback Kansas has become a battleground for far right wing ideology, and bizarre over the top socially conservative religious ideals. Brownback has also peddled his influence and funding to eliminate moderate and sane republicans from the Kansas legislature and install his hand-picked hard right conservative cronies.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-15-2016, 12:37 AM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
10,705 posts, read 18,516,721 times
Reputation: 5415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha_Dog View Post
That number is closer to 70k...and growing. Kansas City’s downtown might have the highest concentration of federal employees per capita of any U.S. city outside of DC, and close to 10k federal employees work within or adjacent to the downtown freeway loop. Add the growing number of Hotel & Restaurant employees, Property Management, White collar Financial Services jobs, Tech, Advertising, Start-ups, a few new Architecture firms, and lots of new Millennials w/o kids, 100k is doable by 2020. The evolution of the downtown area from a 9-to-5 workplace to a growing city core is one of the the main reasons for such rapid apartment construction.

And with all of the destructive economic and social policies in Kansas more companies will likely be moving over to KCMO and moving out of Kansas for good. Brownback's over the top tax cuts were extremely harmful and his poor decisions and draconian policies targeted too many good people and the firms they worked for. Under Brownback Kansas has become a battleground for far right wing ideology, and bizarre over the top socially conservative religious ideals. Brownback has also peddled his influence and funding to eliminate moderate and sane republicans from the Kansas legislature and install his hand-picked hard right conservative cronies.
The federal gov is actually the saving grace of Downtown KCMO. Even with the IRS and several others moving downtown, the city's downtown still lost more jobs than almost any other city in the country. The IRS alone has brought 3000-5000 and as I'm sure you know the GSA just moved 1000 people to pershing square. There are at least 10k fed employees, probably 15k. Then you have all the city and state employees.

It would be nice to see a major company move downtown, from KS or MO side suburban areas.

I still think Cerner could be swayed to build something downtown.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-15-2016, 06:43 AM
 
Location: Hays, Kansas
705 posts, read 825,054 times
Reputation: 638
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
Right, but the time line of this is really really long for very little added office space.



Right, I meant if it's going to be retail, a big box and big parking lot like Lowes or Walmart is all developers can get because the area is so over retailed and over subsidized. Mixed use would be ideal, but because of the economic landscape of suburban retail in KC, it's nearly impossible to make the numbers work for a true mixed use project. It takes incentives to make a project like that happen and when so much greenfield retail is heavily subsided and forces when the market can't even support it, that makes creating infill mixed use projects like Metcalf South and Mission Mall (Gateway) impossible. They need a lot of retail so they can tif everything. Mixed use is just not going to happen along metcalf because of all the new subsidized dependent out south. The best North OP can hope for is probably to clear the land and just build higher density apartments on old retail sites. But there is a big NIMBY factor in JoCo for higher density residential. Other than a few apartments, I don't see much changing over the next 15 years at least. I do think much of Overland Park and other areas of JoCo will begin to see some pretty big blight issues in the near future. Like I said, 119th and Metcalf is already showing significant signs already.
So 119th and Metcalf is blighted because the back portion of Rosana Square has died to do low visibility and poor design? I frequent that intersection because of the proximity to friends, family, Lukas Wine and Spirits, and the Skechers store, and I don't see the area is blighted outside of the ever emptying Sprint Campus. If we want to talk about real suburban blight, then talk about The Great Mall, The outlet mall in Odessa, 95th and Metcalf, 75th and Quivira, and/or Barry Towne Square/Metro North Square. If I go off of 119th and Metcalf as reference, then I can declare half the strip malls near Independence Mall as showing signs of blight. I have a friend who lives in an older part of Shawnee and they've already seen several improvements thanks to IKEA coming to the area. I agree that JoCo had challenges ahead, but you have suburbs like Merrium that have cleaned up a bit for and because of IKEA. Roeland Park, Shawnee, and Mission have a lot of work ahead of them if they're going to remain relevant as their public schools aren't very stellar and their low performance is starting to hurt the district's ability to support the "good school", Shawnee Mission East in Prarie Village, to the extent that residents of that area would like to see. They've lost several very good teachers recently and It was from the fault of very poor and overpaid administration and not Brownback.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-15-2016, 08:09 AM
 
128 posts, read 137,914 times
Reputation: 68
Quote:
Downtown KC during they day outside of the streetcar activity spots is still pretty quiet. KC has to be the quietest big city downtown in the country during business hours. There is just almost no traffic or anything. Even with the main drag though downtown (Grand) closed and many other street closures due to construction, there is almost no traffic and very little pedestrian activity on major roads like Grand and Broadway at 4pm on a weekday which is actually very odd. I really think this has to do with the lack of jobs in downtown. It's becoming mostly residential which means it's quiet during the day for a large downtown area. Downtown KC now desperately needs jobs, just like it desperately needed residents 15 years ago. You need a good mix. KC is starting to gain a lot of ground with more hotel room, but most of these new residents are probably commuting to suburban jobs.
I agree with this, that feels like the difference between the south Crosswords area, where I work, during lunch, And Downtown. It has gotten/getting better but yeah lunch hour feels dead in comparison to after 5. But to add to that, as much as I hate to admit it because I don't find it particularly interesting; downtown also needs more daytime, non-nightlife entertainment and commercial. Particularly chain restaurants and shopping. Thats one huge difference I've noticed between other large bustling downtowns and downtown KC. I honestly enjoy the local organic-ness of it all, but its definitely hurting vibrancy considering most of the city has zero reason to go downtown before 6 o'clock. Along with this, tourists who are looking for familiar comfort shopping drive away from downtown to the plaza, and those looking for comfort restaurants will drive all the way out to the burbs to go to some place they're familiar with.

Speaking on the plaza on this same subject, I think thats part of the daytime deadness too. The plaza serves as the "day-light hours downtown" dividing traffic. I don't think downtown needs to compete with the plaza, but I think it should at least pull the traffic the plaza does during the nightlife hours, over lunch/early afternoon.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-15-2016, 08:57 AM
 
172 posts, read 98,680 times
Reputation: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by brandthom View Post
Speaking on the plaza on this same subject, I think thats part of the daytime deadness too. The plaza serves as the "day-light hours downtown" dividing traffic. I don't think downtown needs to compete with the plaza, but I think it should at least pull the traffic the plaza does during the nightlife hours, over lunch/early afternoon.
That's a good point. The Plaza offers something that downtown does not, which is something to do during the day be it work, eating out during work, or (ugh) retail.

Weren't the Crossroads once a dead and somewhat blighted area? How did that revitalize, and couldn't downtown use some of the same tactics (short of giving out tax incentives)?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-15-2016, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
10,705 posts, read 18,516,721 times
Reputation: 5415
Quote:
Originally Posted by empires228 View Post
So 119th and Metcalf is blighted because the back portion of Rosana Square has died to do low visibility and poor design? I frequent that intersection because of the proximity to friends, family, Lukas Wine and Spirits, and the Skechers store, and I don't see the area is blighted outside of the ever emptying Sprint Campus. If we want to talk about real suburban blight, then talk about The Great Mall, The outlet mall in Odessa, 95th and Metcalf, 75th and Quivira, and/or Barry Towne Square/Metro North Square. If I go off of 119th and Metcalf as reference, then I can declare half the strip malls near Independence Mall as showing signs of blight. I have a friend who lives in an older part of Shawnee and they've already seen several improvements thanks to IKEA coming to the area. I agree that JoCo had challenges ahead, but you have suburbs like Merrium that have cleaned up a bit for and because of IKEA. Roeland Park, Shawnee, and Mission have a lot of work ahead of them if they're going to remain relevant as their public schools aren't very stellar and their low performance is starting to hurt the district's ability to support the "good school", Shawnee Mission East in Prarie Village, to the extent that residents of that area would like to see. They've lost several very good teachers recently and It was from the fault of very poor and overpaid administration and not Brownback.
I didn't say it was blightened. I said it's not aging well, especially for the surrounding demographics. Yes it's very similar to Barry Towne. KC is just way over retailed.

Look at this site plan for around the new northland costco!!!! They should have just put the Costco in the half vacant Barry Towne or in any number of other under utilized shopping centers in that area. To get a tiff for a new greenfield development there is asinine. And another auto mall?

http://www.mdmgt.com/media/1749/plat...age-5-2016.pdf
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Missouri > Kansas City
View detailed profiles of:
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top