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Old 08-16-2016, 01:23 PM
 
1,298 posts, read 986,447 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zach_33 View Post
^ indeed. If you zoom in on the area around 75th and Quivira, the 30 year change in demographics is pretty remarkable.

Poverty by Race, 1980 to 2010
Question: How does the Poverty Line in 1980 compare to the Poverty Line in 2010? If the government raises the poverty line, for instance, graphs like this will make it look like our country went down the tubes overnight.
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Old 08-16-2016, 01:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwiksell View Post
When you say "near SMS" keep in mind that most of the students who go to South live 3-6 miles west of it. That was my problem as a high school student. I actually lived 1/2 mile away, but I was surrounded by young families and retirees. So all my friends were 3-6 miles away.

If you think about all the neighborhoods between 435 and 95th Street, and between Antioch and Pflumm, that's where 90% of South students live. And there's a lot of upper-middle class in that area.
That area was once-upon-a-time upper-middle, but I would classify it as middle now. When I think upper-middle + Shawnee Mission district, nothing immediately comes to mind other than the nicest parts of SMNW's territory and portions of SME (e.g., northern Prairie Village).
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Old 08-16-2016, 01:39 PM
 
Location: IN
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Originally Posted by nycrite View Post
That area was once-upon-a-time upper-middle, but I would classify it as middle now. When I think upper-middle + Shawnee Mission district, nothing immediately comes to mind other than the nicest parts of SMNW's territory and portions of SME (e.g., northern Prairie Village).
It is solidly middle class, I would agree. Since median households have not grown as fast in those census tracts with respect to inflation it is no longer upper-middle class.
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Old 08-16-2016, 02:38 PM
 
Location: Hays, Kansas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwiksell View Post
Question: How does the Poverty Line in 1980 compare to the Poverty Line in 2010? If the government raises the poverty line, for instance, graphs like this will make it look like our country went down the tubes overnight.
I had a similar thought.
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Old 08-16-2016, 07:53 PM
 
1,403 posts, read 1,710,961 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwiksell View Post
Question: How does the Poverty Line in 1980 compare to the Poverty Line in 2010? If the government raises the poverty line, for instance, graphs like this will make it look like our country went down the tubes overnight.
That's a good question, and the subject of considerable policy debate. The methodology has changed over the years, sometimes just a tweak, other times a completely new model, but I believe it has always been pegged to inflation (CPI) and is always in the 11-15% range (as a proportion of Americans). We are a little higher now than we used to be, but no worse than we were in the early 80s. Table 5 on this census page gives a nice historical overview.

http://www.census.gov/data/tables/ti...ty-people.html
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Old 08-16-2016, 07:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by CrownVic95 View Post
Thank you for that fascinating link. Truly one of the most valuable and interesting pages I've seen posted here - ever.
Thanks, Man. Glad to know I'm not the only one who finds this stuff interesting.
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Old 08-17-2016, 02:02 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
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Originally Posted by zach_33 View Post
That's a good question, and the subject of considerable policy debate. The methodology has changed over the years, sometimes just a tweak, other times a completely new model, but I believe it has always been pegged to inflation (CPI) and is always in the 11-15% range (as a proportion of Americans). We are a little higher now than we used to be, but no worse than we were in the early 80s. Table 5 on this census page gives a nice historical overview.

http://www.census.gov/data/tables/ti...ty-people.html
Yes, that question is key to interpreting the significance of this data. I can't speak to historical changes in methodology, but it is clear that any model geared to keeping the percentages in poverty fairly constant over the years is flawed.

There is no question in my mind that we are much worse today than we were in the early 80s - as represented in the map link you previously posted.
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Old 08-17-2016, 07:59 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownVic95 View Post
Yes, that question is key to interpreting the significance of this data. I can't speak to historical changes in methodology, but it is clear that any model geared to keeping the percentages in poverty fairly constant over the years is flawed.

There is no question in my mind that we are much worse today than we were in the early 80s - as represented in the map link you previously posted.
I don't think anyone said that the model was geared to keeping the percentages the same. He just said that it happened to stay roughly in the same range.

So what is it that makes you so sure that we're worse off than we were in the 80s? There are no objective personal standards of affluence; everyone just compares themselves to others. Which means you (and many others) probably just felt better about the general prosperity of the nation in the 80s than you do now.

I think it's very difficult to demonstrate by any objective means that the average American is worse off than 30 years ago.
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Old 08-17-2016, 01:00 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zach_33 View Post
^ indeed. If you zoom in on the area around 75th and Quivira, the 30 year change in demographics is pretty remarkable.

Poverty by Race, 1980 to 2010
The apartments up around that place are definitely *rougher*. There is a liquor store at that intersection where the owner got murdered a couple years back and the occasional murder in the surrounding apartments as well.

The two main crime magnets in the area are around there and then Oak Park Mall just because of it's size and popularity.
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Old 08-17-2016, 01:03 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwiksell View Post
I don't think anyone said that the model was geared to keeping the percentages the same. He just said that it happened to stay roughly in the same range.

So what is it that makes you so sure that we're worse off than we were in the 80s? There are no objective personal standards of affluence; everyone just compares themselves to others. Which means you (and many others) probably just felt better about the general prosperity of the nation in the 80s than you do now.

I think it's very difficult to demonstrate by any objective means that the average American is worse off than 30 years ago.
I agree with you, this isn't a clear-cut issue.

It's further complicated because it varies so greatly by socio-economic groups. Lower and middle class wage earners have been harder hit for example.
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