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Old 08-24-2016, 11:14 PM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
3,658 posts, read 1,768,811 times
Reputation: 2198

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Quote:
Originally Posted by luzianne View Post
And you won't, first because I don't intend to reveal my identity to ANYONE on this forum. I was on a CNN forum during the OJ trial and was contacted by CNN with an offer to be flown to LA, if I would participate in some kind of panel discussion they were filming. I declined that for the same reason - I do not intend to reveal my identity. And if I didn't do it for an all expenses paid trip to LA, I certainly am not going to do it for some random person posting on this forum.


And two, because of statements like below that show me you already have preconceived ideas and your reasons for asking don't include truly wanting opinions from Johnson Countians if they differ from the responses you are hoping to get. I have quoted those statements below and added a brief comment to a couple of them. My comments are in blue.
Fair enough on the first part. But if I found someone who thought that the Governor's approach was making everything ducky in JoCo, I'd include that too. It's just not the sentiment I've been picking up from what media reports filter up this way.

The Shawnee Mission Unified School District was the pride of the county (and the region) when I was growing up. The news that reaches me is that this "growth" strategy has led to cratered school budgets all over the state, but the effect on Shawnee Mission Unified seemed to strike harder because of its status and reputation. That's what I meant by "in line with what I was expecting." I'm not fishing for answers; the person who provided the response that she chose to live in the De Soto School District because of Shawnee Mission's woes has not posted anything on this thread but has obviously been following it.

(The sorry state of the Kansas City [Mo.] School District, by contrast, has nothing to do with Missouri dangling tax breaks in front of companies located in Kansas and everything to do with a long-running desegregation case that at its height had taxpayers across the Show-Me State paying for lavish new schools meant to lure students from other districts. That failed spectacularly.)

If the roads in Missouri now more closely resemble moonscapes, that does mark a reversal from the situation in the area when I lived there. Missouri's highways in the 1960s and 1970s were better than Kansas'; the situation in that state was more like that in Pennsylvania at the time I moved there in the 1980s: the Turnpike was in excellent shape and all the other freeways needed work. (Even the Turkey Creek Expressway, which wasn't all that old, wasn't all that great.)

Again, if you think the strategy is not harming Kansas and JoCo the way I get the impression it is, please comment. If you wish to remain anonymous, state your community of residence. I may be "a random person," but I'm a random person born and raised in the area who still cares about its fate even from 1300 miles away (I assume you read my debut column in 435), and one who's regarded as a strong reporter and commentator where he lives now.

The comment my cousin made is more a reflection on that sense-of-entitlement/sense-of-privilege/in-the-area-but-not-of-it aura that many on the Missouri side perceive as emanating from there. (The county's pulling out of the Area Transportation Authority back in the mid-1980s would be an example of this attitude in action, though if the ATA wasn't providing the level of commuter bus service the old private operator did, it would have been a defensible move; I honestly didn't know enough about bus service in Johnson County growing up to say whether or not that was the case. I do note that JoCo is now contracting with the ATA to operate its bus service and has gone all in on the RideKC regional transportation branding/coordination program, so maybe things have changed there as well.)

But I guess your mind's made up now. Little I've seen on this thread leads me to believe my assessment of the effect of Brownback's beggar-thy-neighbor job-creation strategy was, or is, off base, and it's not a good idea for Missouri either. (This report from Good Jobs First [PDF], which I think either rwiksell or Mathguy linked early on in this thread, pretty much meshes with my overall attitude on this type of job-creation strategy. And unfortunately, once one state starts playing this game, the others feel they have to play it too just to protect their own economies.) If I start to see statements and evidence to the contrary, which I don't think even you have provided, I'll incorporate them into what I write.
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Old 08-24-2016, 11:32 PM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
3,658 posts, read 1,768,811 times
Reputation: 2198
One more followup to provide perspective and back that original post from Mathguy up:

Economic-development people in one of the 11 counties that make up the Philadelphia region using bribes to cause companies to move from another of those counties to their own is also a problem here; New Jersey has also used them, as Missouri has, to keep a company within the county where it's currently located (the goal was to stimulate development in Camden, the poorest municipality in the Garden State and one of the poorest in the nation, but it was also aimed at keeping the company, which had stated it would keep its headquarters in the area, from moving across the Delaware into Philadelphia.)

There has been some success hereabouts, though, at tamping down this worst version of the shell game. The formation of "Select Greater Philadelphia," a business-recruiting effort involving all eight of the core metro counties in New Jersey and Pennsylvania, has led to a shift of focus to luring companies from outside the region to it, and where they settle once they select Greater Philadelphia is of less importance overall than that they have moved here from beyond the region.

But to the extent that tax expenditures are involved, it's still the shell game, just a less (locally) destructive version of it.

The other reason it's easy to focus on Brownback is that he has touted this as a legit and successful economic growth strategy that made tax increases unnecessary. (Look how well that turned out.) If Jay Nixon were spouting that rhetoric, I'd look into the disconnect from reality there too.
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Old 08-25-2016, 07:32 AM
 
Location: Middle America
35,817 posts, read 39,346,783 times
Reputation: 48613
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl View Post

FWIW, when I last visited in 2014, one of my cousins, as we were discussing the state of things around the area, used a third word in between "Johnson" and "County" to describe it. It begins with F. He was referring to what he perceived as the attitudes of the residents. As about 50 percent of my high school classmates lived in ZIP codes beginning with 662, I don't quite go that far, but I must admit to chuckling at that description, as it did capture some of that "we're in this region but not of it" attitude some complain about. Is this perception an exaggeration? Well, what do you Kansans say?
Since you asked, I don't identify with this attitude.

But, I'm a nonnative-a transplant who lived Missouri- side for over half the years I've lived here. Moved to Johnson County when I got engaged to my now- husband, a lifelong Mission resident. And, as an atypical Johnson County resident, it has been impressed upon me numerous times on threads like these that my experiences and opinions therefore hold no weight, and "what this Kansan says" is therefore not relevant.
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Old 08-25-2016, 07:47 AM
 
12,607 posts, read 14,609,308 times
Reputation: 14096
Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa View Post
Since you asked, I don't identify with this attitude.

But, I'm a nonnative-a transplant who lived Missouri- side for over half the years I've lived here. Moved to Johnson County when I got engaged to my now- husband, a lifelong Mission resident. And, as an atypical Johnson County resident, it has been impressed upon me numerous times on threads like these that my experiences and opinions therefore hold no weight, and "what this Kansan says" is therefore not relevant.
Well, I was born in Missouri, did half my growing up in Missouri, have lived in rural, suburban and urban Kansas City, Missouri areas, as well as rural, suburban and urban areas on the Kansas side, have been pretty much a lifelong Kansas City area resident other than brief periods when I was in college or elsewhere, and yet because I prefer the Kansas side my opinions apparently hold no weight either.
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Old 08-25-2016, 08:02 AM
 
2,195 posts, read 2,145,372 times
Reputation: 1916
Quote:
Originally Posted by luzianne View Post
I will continue to say more KC doctors live in Johnson County than elsewhere in the metro. YOU keep saying that's not true, and as you say you can keep repeating that, but it doesn't make it true. I do happen to know where a whole lot of doctors live, and if I wanted/needed to I could look up any others. Johnson County is where professionals tend to want to live. There are SOME on the Missouri side, but more in Johnson County.
Where's your link, then?
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Old 08-25-2016, 08:14 AM
 
12,607 posts, read 14,609,308 times
Reputation: 14096
Quote:
Originally Posted by s.davis View Post
Where's your link, then?
So you don't have a link?

I never said I had a source that could be documented online like you said. I know where doctors in the Kansas City metro area live because of my professional connections. Obviously, there is going to be no link on the internet to that. However, you keep citing numbers of 1.5 (or 2, depending on what you feel like posting) as many doctors living on the Missouri side than the Kansas side. Obviously you're pulling that information from somewhere. So where is it coming from? I know you say the US government, but I don't believe the US government posts statistics showing where Kansas City area doctors live. I told you my information comes from my professional connections. Where exactly is your information coming from?
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Old 08-25-2016, 08:40 AM
 
Location: Middle America
35,817 posts, read 39,346,783 times
Reputation: 48613
Quote:
Originally Posted by luzianne View Post
Well, I was born in Missouri, did half my growing up in Missouri, have lived in rural, suburban and urban Kansas City, Missouri areas, as well as rural, suburban and urban areas on the Kansas side, have been pretty much a lifelong Kansas City area resident other than brief periods when I was in college or elsewhere, and yet because I prefer the Kansas side my opinions apparently hold no weight either.
I wouldn't even say I prefer the Kansas side. It's just where I ended up. I like where I live, just as I liked living on the Missouri side. I have no overwhelming preference. I certainly don't carry an air of superiority regarding the community or state I live in, and the idea is weird to me.

Buuuuuut...that doesn't fit the narrative; therefore, it is invalid.
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Old 08-25-2016, 11:54 AM
 
172 posts, read 98,498 times
Reputation: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa View Post
I wouldn't even say I prefer the Kansas side. It's just where I ended up. I like where I live, just as I liked living on the Missouri side. I have no overwhelming preference. I certainly don't carry an air of superiority regarding the community or state I live in, and the idea is weird to me.

Buuuuuut...that doesn't fit the narrative; therefore, it is invalid.
I also have no overwhelming preference which state I live in. I simply favor denser, urban areas and therefore chose the Missouri side. It offers much more of what I desire than Kansas.

You are certainly an exception, given your neutrality toward the Kansas vs. Missouri debate. I'm hoping more adopt your attitude as the strong biases on this forum can be tiresome and hijack way too many threads.

Not everything has to be vehement defense of one's side of the state line!
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Old 08-25-2016, 12:20 PM
 
12,607 posts, read 14,609,308 times
Reputation: 14096
Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa View Post
I wouldn't even say I prefer the Kansas side. It's just where I ended up. I like where I live, just as I liked living on the Missouri side. I have no overwhelming preference. I certainly don't carry an air of superiority regarding the community or state I live in, and the idea is weird to me.

Buuuuuut...that doesn't fit the narrative; therefore, it is invalid.
After living extensively on both sides, I found that I much prefer the Kansas side when it comes to the Kansas City area. I guess that's a crime. It's only acceptable to most here if you say you like the Missouri side better. I've lived near the Plaza, I've lived in northeast KC, I've lived in midtown, I've lived in the Westport area and I've even lived east of Troost. And for that matter, I also have lived in Smithville and small towns east/northeast of there, as well as Platte City. None of them felt like home to me. Johnson County is home.


Now if we were talking about the southern part of Kansas/Missouri, I prefer Missouri - especially if we are talking about the area between Springfield and Branson. But as far as Kansas City goes? Nah. I like the Kansas side.
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Old 08-25-2016, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Middle America
35,817 posts, read 39,346,783 times
Reputation: 48613
Quote:
Originally Posted by nycrite View Post
I also have no overwhelming preference which state I live in. I simply favor denser, urban areas and therefore chose the Missouri side. It offers much more of what I desire than Kansas.

You are certainly an exception, given your neutrality toward the Kansas vs. Missouri debate. I'm hoping more adopt your attitude as the strong biases on this forum can be tiresome and hijack way too many threads.

Not everything has to be vehement defense of one's side of the state line!
I've said this a million time on here...In my day-to-day life, which is equally spread over both sides of State Line Road, 99.9% of the people I come into contact with DO NOT CARE about a big, angry KS/MO debate, or some ridiculous "There is a better quality of people living on x side" bullsh*t. It's pretty much purely an online phenomenon, for me. It's also possible that I largely associate with reasonable people who really aren't that interested in justifying where they live and if they like it and why with gigantic chips on their shoulders toward anybody who isn't in lockstep.
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