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Old 08-12-2016, 05:54 PM
 
12,607 posts, read 14,609,308 times
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^^^ You have a problem using words correctly, don't you?
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Old 08-12-2016, 06:01 PM
 
684 posts, read 581,957 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luzianne View Post
^^^ You have a problem using words correctly, don't you?
Perhaps I do. Now would you like to spend another five pages arguing about that? Or will you let the OP have his topic back.
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Old 08-12-2016, 06:40 PM
 
12,607 posts, read 14,609,308 times
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Originally Posted by Truly Missouri View Post
Perhaps I do. Now would you like to spend another five pages arguing about that? Or will you let the OP have his topic back.
I'm not the one who jumped in this thread and derailed it first post. That was kcmo. And you have done your fair share too. And the OP is a SHE, not a HE.
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Old 08-12-2016, 06:45 PM
 
684 posts, read 581,957 times
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Originally Posted by luzianne View Post
I'm not the one who jumped in this thread and derailed it first post. That was kcmo. and you have done your fair share too. And the OP is a SHE, not a HE.
Worry and read less about kcmo, and more about the OP, he's a he.

Quote:
Sandy Smith is the home and real estate editor at Philadelphia magazine and a contributor to Next City. A native Kansas Citian, Smith graduated from The Pembroke Hill School in 1976 and Harvard University in 1982 before moving to Philadelphia, where he has lived for the past 34 years
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Old 08-13-2016, 05:02 AM
 
Location: Middle America
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Originally Posted by luzianne View Post
And the OP is a SHE, not a HE.
I don't think so.
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Old 08-13-2016, 05:04 AM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
3,658 posts, read 1,768,811 times
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Some of you will be receiving private messages from me over the next several days. (Including you, luzianne. But given your background, whence the Bayou State posting handle?) But since this conversation has taken on a life of its own - and one that has pretty much worked out as the second post on the topic predicted it would - I want to address some of the comments that have been posted here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Here is a great source op. Page 21+ lists the regional poach actions. Both sides have been quite busy. It has not been the one sided affair some like to think.

http://www.goodjobsfirst.org/sites/d.../shellgame.pdf
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
[...]

If you want to talk poaching and how MO is the innocent victim then here's an article that might help you.

All Smiles in Branson! | How Money Walks | How $2 Trillion Moved between the States - A Book By Travis H. Brown

One big fat regional poach over the last 30+ years via massive state incentives and investment with this recent addition....

If you want, let's agree that KS was quicker to the draw on corporate poaching while MO was occupied with poaching in other areas.
Mathguy: I appreciate your supplying both of these links, which address the topic from different perspectives: Good Jobs First, which I contacted for my Next City feature on the Power & Light District, "The $295 Million Mall Taxpayers Bought Kansas City," is a left-of-center policy research and advocacy organization, while "How Money Walks," the book and the website, are the product of an author, policy advocate and consultant who preaches the gospel of the Laffer curve.

Which brings up another subject. That article on Branson extolled how that tourist destination mushroomed without the kind of tax subsidies I had in mind, namely, the ones Good Jobs First (IMO, rightly) excoriates. Those basically transfer workers' personal income taxes from the state treasury to the employer's pocket - and the reason I wanted to focus on these is because I strongly suspect that these transfers undercut the ability of states, counties and cities to provide the kind of services that maintain the quality of life and promote true, durable economic growth. When tax revenues flowing to Topeka shrink, the University of Kansas (and I imagine the Shawnee Mission Unified School District, unless Kansas provides no state aid to local school districts) suffer, and that's like a farmer eating the seed corn.

And that, in turn, brings us to the flaw in the Laffer curve argument. Missouri didn't use tax subsidies to lure businesses to Branson; instead, it passed a law that enabled retirees to in effect live in the state tax-free. What should happen as a result is that the Ozarks will begin to resemble central Florida as pensioners build retirement homes there (and pay local property taxes on them); I'd wager that those tourists flocking to Branson skew older even now. This strikes me as a much less harmful approach to economic stimulus - until you hit the point where further tax cuts do not produce net revenue increases. The Laffer curve remains a curve, and one with a downward as well as an upward slope to boot.

The reason I asked Kansans to weigh in is this: Even though it may have been the state's last Democratic governor who initiated the bribes, Brownback has yoked them to a Lafferian fundamentalist approach to tax policy, at least based on what I've read. And it seems to me that Kansas has crossed over to the point where the Laffer curve slopes downward. Certainly the fact that Brownback had to swallow the largest tax increase in state history to stanch the flow of red ink on the Topeka balance sheet suggests that. And leading up to that, I'd read stories about school districts across the state cutting muscle, not fat, out of their budgets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
Basically what I have said. You simply can't argue that KU Hospital is a great asset to metro KC and probably one of the best hospitals in the region. They are finally starting to build up the KU Med area into a full blown urban research campus too. But living on the east coast now for some time, for once it would be nice if KC had its own identity and Kansas was not a part of it. KC is so different from what people imagine "kansas" to be like. KCMO and Kansas could not be more different, especially compared to the stereotypical image of Kansas. I don't care to claim Missouri either. KC needs its own identity. The KU ads are fine, but I wouldn't mind if they changed them one bit.
Those of you who've read my capsule bio, quoted by Truly Missouri in the post above this, should have picked up that I attended a school located right on State Line Road. I spent the last six years of my K-12 career at Pem-Day. (I consider it karmic in retrospect that I spent the first six at now-closed William Rockhill Nelson elementary school.) While about half of Pem-Day's black students (about 9 percent of the student body when I attended; that figure's risen since but remains a minority and always will barring some truly radical change in the structure of American society) lived in my home ZIP code of 64130 when I went there (and two of them lived within three blocks of my home in the 4100 block of Bellefontaine Avenue), the single largest contingent of students at the school resided in ZIP code 66208, which includes Mission Hills (Leawood hadn't quite exploded into the locus of luxury it is now at the time). One of my closest high school friendships was with a man from Mission Hills who was my right-hand man on the school newspaper the year I was its editor-in-chief; he marched to a different drummer then and now - he exposed me to Abraham Maslow in high school, and after graduating college, he went off to Nepal to become a Buddhist monk. I claim both states as part of my personal history, but I do seek to educate clueless Easterners about the nature of the place, hence my comment - which I will utter even while wearing a "Kansas as F**k" t-shirt my dear friend the McClatchy Washington Bureau reporter bought me on his last trip to the area.

FTR: the first political jurisdiction in the United States to be named for the "People of the South Wind" is the state to Missouri's south; that's the French version of the Indian nation's name. But the second is the community originally called "Westport Landing" when it was settled in 1839; the Kansas Territory wouldn't be created for another four years after the Town of Kansas in Missouri was incorporated on July 1, 1850. But the creation of that territory and the circumstances under which it was created has locked it and the state to its east in a sort of fatal embrace: after all, "Bleeding Kansas" was the dress rehearsal for the Civil War, and a lot of that bleeding was caused by Missourians anxious to extend "the slave power" westward. Today's multistate economic "border wars" are in a sense a "civil war" being fought by other means (and if you read the Good Jobs First report, you may note that the first shots in this war too were fired in the South), but it takes on added significance and intensity in Kansas City because here, it's all internal: two states basically blowing their household budgets on rearranging the furniture.

There are those who argue that our state lines should be redrawn so that the great metropolises are at their center. Nowhere would this reform be more beneficial than in Kansas City, IMO.

BTW: one poster noted with some accuracy that a lot of what Missouri does in this department is for the benefit of St. Louis. But St. Louis is like Philadelphia in that the metropolitan population is more unbalanced - in both cases, about two-thirds of it lives in the state housing the core city - and the state line less porous - the Mississippi and Delaware rivers are a bit more difficult to cross than a street. The population of metropolitan Kansas City is a little more evenly distributed between the two states, and about the only difference one immediately notices upon crossing the state line is the shape of the state highway markers. I make my arch statement only because the two core cities are not equal; Kansas City, Mo., is the older and larger by far, and it's that that folks on the East Coast often get confused. (Also: if you look at Census Bureau figures, the bureau considers only one of those two "core.") But Kansas City is, or ought to be, one region.

Last edited by MarketStEl; 08-13-2016 at 05:15 AM..
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Old 08-13-2016, 07:39 AM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
3,658 posts, read 1,768,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheezball View Post
Just to clarify and break up the confusion: The University of Kansas Hospital broke away some time ago from the University of Kansas. The University of Kansas Hospital is a hospital on it's own merits similar to Saint Lukes or other healthcare systems. This isn't Kansas University advertising or sponsoring Royals Baseball.
BTW, as to why those ads are at the K? Well, there's this from the University of Kansas Hospital timeline:

Quote:
2011: Hospital becomes the official healthcare provider of the Kansas City Royals. In 2012, the hospital becomes the official healthcare provider of the Kansas City Chiefs.
Wonder if the original Bell Memorial Hospital building still stands?
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Old 08-13-2016, 08:30 AM
 
48,893 posts, read 39,381,014 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl View Post
Some of you will be receiving private messages from me over the next several days. (Including you, luzianne. But given your background, whence the Bayou State posting handle?) But since this conversation has taken on a life of its own - and one that has pretty much worked out as the second post on the topic predicted it would - I want to address some of the comments that have been posted here.

Mathguy: I appreciate your supplying both of these links, which address the topic from different perspectives: Good Jobs First, which I contacted for my Next City feature on the Power & Light District, "The $295 Million Mall Taxpayers Bought Kansas City," is a left-of-center policy research and advocacy organization, while "How Money Walks," the book and the website, are the product of an author, policy advocate and consultant who preaches the gospel of the Laffer curve.

Which brings up another subject. That article on Branson extolled how that tourist destination mushroomed without the kind of tax subsidies I had in mind, namely, the ones Good Jobs First (IMO, rightly) excoriates. Those basically transfer workers' personal income taxes from the state treasury to the employer's pocket - and the reason I wanted to focus on these is because I strongly suspect that these transfers undercut the ability of states, counties and cities to provide the kind of services that maintain the quality of life and promote true, durable economic growth. When tax revenues flowing to Topeka shrink, the University of Kansas (and I imagine the Shawnee Mission Unified School District, unless Kansas provides no state aid to local school districts) suffer, and that's like a farmer eating the seed corn.
1) I would suggest that what was predicted in the 2nd post actually did not come true considering that myself and some others didn't take their 6th grade baiting and stuck to having an actual discussion. Something that allegedly couldn't happen.

2) Let me present the Branson issue from another angle. By attracting retirees with tax breaks you are doing exactly the same thing as attracting businesses with tax abatements and other perks. Basically some other area is losing tax revenue and you are gaining their local spending, purchase of property, jobs or whatever it is they bring to the table while they aren't helping to carry as much of the tax burden. Whether that money ends up in a corporations pockets...in turn dividends...which goes to typically pension funds and older retirees.... or just goes directly to older retirees makes no difference.

Basically, I disagreed with many premises in the Branson article but thought it was worth pointing out as at least it contained hard facts.
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Old 08-13-2016, 08:43 AM
 
48,893 posts, read 39,381,014 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
^They can bring up Cerner, Branson, the Rams or whatever else they can come up with that have nothing to do with this specific topic.
Lol...that's a whopper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
I can't think of a more fake economic image than most of Johnson County where almost every single commercial development in that supposedly affluent and desirable county is extremely subsidized. Almost every new hotel, retail center, office building etc is subsidized more in JoCo than what you would see in distressed urban areas. Most of the urban redevelopment in downtown KC is subsidized far less than office, hotel and retail developments in far flung areas of JoCo.
As usual, posted from your imagination with no sourcing....whoppa whoppa whoppa....
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Old 08-13-2016, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
10,705 posts, read 18,493,517 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Lol...that's a whopper.



As usual, posted from your imagination with no sourcing....whoppa whoppa whoppa....
Plenty of source. Pick up the KC Business Journal and read about every development proposed in JoCo. Start with all the newest stuff in the newest areas like Prairie Fire, Corbin Park, the new hotels in Olathe and Lenexa (Embassy Suites and Hyatt place etc). Any new office development, any new retail center, any new hotel. It's not just tifs, it's not just 10 or 20% of a project cost, it's super tifs, star bonds, etc, it's well over 50% of the cost of the projects. In affluent outer suburban greenfields.

There is plenty of source. You and every other Kansan just do not care to know about it.
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