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Old 08-23-2016, 03:04 PM
 
12,607 posts, read 14,617,198 times
Reputation: 14105

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Quote:
Originally Posted by s.davis View Post
When you call out someone's incorrected use of an apostrophe, but make a grammar error in your own message...
And what grammar error would that be? Oh, I left in the word "the" when I changed the wording. That's not a grammar error. I do know correct from not correct, which kcmo apparently doesn't since he often puts an apostrophe in years - like 80's. There's a difference between a typo and ignorance of correct usage. Did you notice you said "incorrected" use of an apostrophe?
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Old 08-23-2016, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
10,705 posts, read 18,504,291 times
Reputation: 5415
Quote:
Originally Posted by luzianne View Post
You are crazy. Downtown KC was absolutely NOT booming. It was declining for a long time. When I was down there every day was actually 1984 on. But it was in decline before that. I remember One KC Place being built and the "Jetson's" looking things on Bartle Hall. That's when things started to improve. Before that, it was in decline.


One KC Place was built in the late 80s and the convention center sculptures in 1992 to 1994, somewhere in there. As I said, that is when things started to improve. If it was going vacant at that time, why would they be building new office buildings and spending money on sculptures? They wouldn't.


And KCMO has no one to blame but themselves for businesses moving to Kansas.
Downtown KC was booming in the mid 1980's. This is only the very large buildings. KC would die to have this type of office and hotel construction in a ten year period today.

Town Pavilion 1986
One KC Place 1988
Hyatt Hotel 1980
12 Wyandotte Plaza 1986
Commerce Building 1986
UMB Headquarters 1986
Pershing Square 1986
1201 Walnut 1990
Downtown Marriott 1985
2405 Grand 1986
2600 Grand 1990
Broadway Square 1990

Huge buildings like the P&L Building, Commerce Tower, Ten Main, Mercantile Tower and dozens of others were filled with employees (they are all now mostly apartments).

The streets were busy with more people and traffic and buses. Something like 10,000 people took buses to work in downtown KC every day. I agree it was dead at night and nobody wants to walk across a dead downtown at night. But it was much busier during the day.

Downtown KC was much busier with far more people working there than today and was booming with commercial construction nonstop till 1990 when the offices began to empty out to JoCo in waves.

The difference today is there is residential construction occurring and downtown has become more mixed use.

BTW, the art on bartle hall was a city funded expansion of a convention center. That art really has nothing to do with the economic health of downtown.

Last edited by kcmo; 08-23-2016 at 03:54 PM..
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Old 08-24-2016, 10:40 PM
 
48,898 posts, read 39,401,698 times
Reputation: 30554
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
Downtown KC was much busier in the 80's. There were twice as many people working downtown. It was only a ghost town after five because nobody lived there. Ever been to Corporate woods after 5? Just empty parking lots and empty streets.
KCMO started dying on it's own long before any brownback poaching.

It's nice to see that they are starting to recover but honestly, i read your pathetic rants blaming it all on Kansas but we both really know you are just raging.

KCMO fell far because of it's own mismanagement and corruption. The more recent poaching etc. is just sharks picking at the whale carcass....but hopefully the whale is ok after all.

Blaming the decline of KCMO on KS is pretty nuts but you're posts show us you have no basis in reality.

I mean all I have to do to send this forum into a complete meltdown is to just post like you do. It's sad nobody has spotted what's been going on here...the incoherent raging, the lack of any coherent support for positions, ignoring facts and putting words in peoples mouths?

My experiment here as ended. You guys seriously need some introspection because most of my comments were jokes using your posting style because you just kept attacking us in the KS forum. You honestly can't spot your own biases?

I mean wow. Some of you actually realized (tips hat to Rwikswell) that you were being nutty bashing on JOCO. I seriously hold little hope for you, KS is your white whale after all but perhaps some of the others can realize the insanity is just that.

All the best. Going forward I will post as mathguy and not mathkcmo like I have been. I think the sane members of the forum will recognize the difference and hopefully will understand what just happened the last few months.
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Old 08-24-2016, 10:43 PM
 
48,898 posts, read 39,401,698 times
Reputation: 30554
For the denser types...let me provide a link explaining the lesson...I'll never let you down.

Hidden Rick Roll Video Link Collection - Bro J Simpson
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Old 08-25-2016, 11:59 AM
 
Location: KCMO (Plaza)
290 posts, read 230,173 times
Reputation: 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
KCMO started dying on it's own long before any brownback poaching.

It's nice to see that they are starting to recover but honestly, i read your pathetic rants blaming it all on Kansas but we both really know you are just raging.

KCMO fell far because of it's own mismanagement and corruption. The more recent poaching etc. is just sharks picking at the whale carcass....but hopefully the whale is ok after all.

Blaming the decline of KCMO on KS is pretty nuts but you're posts show us you have no basis in reality.


I mean all I have to do to send this forum into a complete meltdown is to just post like you do. It's sad nobody has spotted what's been going on here...the incoherent raging, the lack of any coherent support for positions, ignoring facts and putting words in peoples mouths?

My experiment here as ended. You guys seriously need some introspection because most of my comments were jokes using your posting style because you just kept attacking us in the KS forum. You honestly can't spot your own biases?

I mean wow. Some of you actually realized (tips hat to Rwikswell) that you were being nutty bashing on JOCO. I seriously hold little hope for you, KS is your white whale after all but perhaps some of the others can realize the insanity is just that.

All the best. Going forward I will post as mathguy and not mathkcmo like I have been. I think the sane members of the forum will recognize the difference and hopefully will understand what just happened the last few months.
I think some people are getting too worked up over the border. Frankly, many cities declined following WWII and Johnson County was simply the nearby suburban area that profited from the general decline of cities and the rise of suburbanization occurring throughout the United States. Kansas has tried to continue that process with handing out mammoth subsidies to companies for better or worst depending on one's outlook. The interesting thing will be how Kansas reacts to a revitalized urban core that it hasn't faced in perhaps 50 years. One thing I can't deny though is that KC has an entrenched suburban mindset that will take years to alleviate. Yet, a revitalized downtown and new streetcar have bought out a lot of suburban residents to the city to check things and that will continue as more things occur in the urban core of the city.
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Old 08-25-2016, 12:14 PM
 
1,298 posts, read 984,056 times
Reputation: 658
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
My experiment here as ended.
Thank God.

Somewhere in the corner of your mind I'm sure you sound like the voice of reason, but out here where people live it just sounds sanctimonious and nonsensical.
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Old 08-25-2016, 12:19 PM
 
1,298 posts, read 984,056 times
Reputation: 658
Quote:
Originally Posted by luzianne View Post
You are crazy. Downtown KC was absolutely NOT booming. It was declining for a long time. When I was down there every day was actually 1984 on. But it was in decline before that. I remember One KC Place being built and the "Jetson's" looking things on Bartle Hall. That's when things started to improve. Before that, it was in decline.


One KC Place was built in the late 80s and the convention center sculptures in 1992 to 1994, somewhere in there. As I said, that is when things started to improve. If it was going vacant at that time, why would they be building new office buildings and spending money on sculptures? They wouldn't.


And KCMO has no one to blame but themselves for businesses moving to Kansas.
1. Jetsons has no apostrophe
2. Sentences are not to begin with conjunctions such as "and" or "but"

Let's thank my Oklahoma education for that ;-)

On another note, it cracks me up that you don't even know what the sculptures are. They didn't just decide to build four towers for fun, and put sculptures on top. As kcmo pointed out in a different reply, they are the four pylons which were required to hold up the roof on the Bartle Hall expansion. The sculptures on top were just for fun, but you seem to think they were the whole point. "Hm... these huge metal shapes look great. But they would look even better if they were 200 feet in the air! Can we make that happen?"
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Old 08-25-2016, 12:25 PM
 
1,298 posts, read 984,056 times
Reputation: 658
Quote:
Originally Posted by luzianne View Post
No it wouldn't. KCMO would flounder without the influx of money from Johnson County. I know you hate it, but it's true.
LOL. The same exact thing that's happened in Kansas over the decades has happened in Lee's Summit, Blue Springs, etc. Except on a smaller/slower scale due to greater distance from the urban core. And the same thing has happened in every single metro in the US. There's no reason to believe JoCo deserves some kind of credit for keeping KCMO afloat. Quite the opposite.
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Old 08-25-2016, 02:28 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
10,705 posts, read 18,504,291 times
Reputation: 5415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
KCMO started dying on it's own long before any brownback poaching.

It's nice to see that they are starting to recover but honestly, i read your pathetic rants blaming it all on Kansas but we both really know you are just raging.

KCMO fell far because of it's own mismanagement and corruption. The more recent poaching etc. is just sharks picking at the whale carcass....but hopefully the whale is ok after all.

Blaming the decline of KCMO on KS is pretty nuts but you're posts show us you have no basis in reality.

I mean all I have to do to send this forum into a complete meltdown is to just post like you do. It's sad nobody has spotted what's been going on here...the incoherent raging, the lack of any coherent support for positions, ignoring facts and putting words in peoples mouths?

My experiment here as ended. You guys seriously need some introspection because most of my comments were jokes using your posting style because you just kept attacking us in the KS forum. You honestly can't spot your own biases?

I mean wow. Some of you actually realized (tips hat to Rwikswell) that you were being nutty bashing on JOCO. I seriously hold little hope for you, KS is your white whale after all but perhaps some of the others can realize the insanity is just that.

All the best. Going forward I will post as mathguy and not mathkcmo like I have been. I think the sane members of the forum will recognize the difference and hopefully will understand what just happened the last few months.
I have read your posts in the Kansas forums. You are posting as Mathguy. Don't kid yourself.

Downtown was busier during the day. That was the reason for my reply. I understand that it was starting to decline, it was declining long before the 80s as far as retail, residential, infrastructure etc just like every downtown was during then. But they aslo added millions of sq ft of office space in the 80s and there were tens of thousands of more workers there. So it was definitely much busier. There was more blight, more parking lots etc outside the core office tower district, but it was much busier and the core of downtown was safe and vibrant with people and traffic during business hours. Town Pavilion, One KC Place, City Center Square, Commerce, Arcade etc all had bustling food courts, small shops etc. The Jones Store was still there, the KC Museum even had an annex in Town Pavilion shopping center. The problem was when you got five blocks from 12th and Walnut, downtown was rapidly decaying and being overtaken by old vacant buildings and parking lots and it was 9-5 only. It was a ghost town after six pm.

I have never blamed KS for all of KCMO's problems. But Kansas has their hands very dirty in the problem today. They have taken a problem that every older urban city deals with (white flight, sprawl, competition from suburban office parks etc) and made it ten times worse. The incentives that Kansas started giving out to poach KCMO companies in the late 90's has progressively have gotten more aggressive and wildly fiscally irresponsible and have forced KC to do the same. I'm talking about incentives packages so excessive that you can't even find similar examples in other metros where a company moves 200-500 employees 15 miles for 20-60 million in incentives.

Throw in all the freeloading JoCo does off KCMO's attractions while at the same time building competing bush league attractions (that are really only for obtaining STAR bonds) and refusing to cooperate on regional transit etc and yea, the state line is a bigger issue than people know or care about. The inability for Johnson and Jackson Counties (by far the two largest in the region) to get along is doing real harm to the metro.

Last edited by kcmo; 08-25-2016 at 03:18 PM..
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Old 08-25-2016, 03:16 PM
 
172 posts, read 98,543 times
Reputation: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by PA650 View Post
I think some people are getting too worked up over the border. Frankly, many cities declined following WWII and Johnson County was simply the nearby suburban area that profited from the general decline of cities and the rise of suburbanization occurring throughout the United States. Kansas has tried to continue that process with handing out mammoth subsidies to companies for better or worst depending on one's outlook. The interesting thing will be how Kansas reacts to a revitalized urban core that it hasn't faced in perhaps 50 years. One thing I can't deny though is that KC has an entrenched suburban mindset that will take years to alleviate. Yet, a revitalized downtown and new streetcar have bought out a lot of suburban residents to the city to check things and that will continue as more things occur in the urban core of the city.
I fear the suburban mindset will always persist. KC has too much cheap land and too many people willing to drive long distances to live in a large house on the aforementioned cheap land.

As kcmo suggested in other posts, downtown needs jobs. Right now, the lack of a true, diversified commercial district means it's very difficult to live/work/play in the same area.
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