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Old 10-17-2016, 07:51 AM
 
Location: Hays, Kansas
705 posts, read 822,940 times
Reputation: 638

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
True. They had that rape of the officer in Olathe recently.

They have issues down around oak park mall too from time to time.

In reality, the Plaza had a stretch there where they were starting to have more incidents but have increased policing and curfew rules to adjust.

I think that with the steps the plaza has taken i personally don't feel any more concerned than most parts oft he metro.
And you'd think most of the big incidences of crime around Oak Park Mall would be from North JoCo or WyCo residents, but no, for the overwhelming majority of the crimes it's the same crowd that causes problems at The Plaza and Westport and even the occasional Ward Parkway incident. That's the reason I think JoCo will resist ever hopping on commuter rail. There are plenty of stories out there of what happened to prosperous malls in places like Baltimore once mass transit made it easy for people to travel there from high crime areas and bring the crime with them.
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Old 10-17-2016, 11:43 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
7,645 posts, read 5,638,332 times
Reputation: 7496
Quote:
Originally Posted by empires228 View Post
And you'd think most of the big incidences of crime around Oak Park Mall would be from North JoCo or WyCo residents, but no, for the overwhelming majority of the crimes it's the same crowd that causes problems at The Plaza and Westport and even the occasional Ward Parkway incident. That's the reason I think JoCo will resist ever hopping on commuter rail. There are plenty of stories out there of what happened to prosperous malls in places like Baltimore once mass transit made it easy for people to travel there from high crime areas and bring the crime with them.
That is exactly right....lots and lots of stories. Almost as many stories as there are areas with mass transit.

Upscale suburbs need mass transit like they need F-5 tornadoes.
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Old 10-17-2016, 12:51 PM
 
Location: KCMO (Plaza)
290 posts, read 230,070 times
Reputation: 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownVic95 View Post
That is exactly right....lots and lots of stories. Almost as many stories as there are areas with mass transit.

Upscale suburbs need mass transit like they need F-5 tornadoes.
None of the 'thugs' have cars? Anything can be used for good and bad. And JOCO doesn't need to worry about poorer elements in their county. They're already there and will only increase in time.
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Old 10-17-2016, 01:31 PM
 
12,607 posts, read 14,609,308 times
Reputation: 14096
Quote:
Originally Posted by PA650 View Post
None of the 'thugs' have cars? Anything can be used for good and bad. And JOCO doesn't need to worry about poorer elements in their county. They're already there and will only increase in time.
And as that happens, residents will move further out to get away from the crime.

Some thugs have cars; some don't. I know for a fact that Johnson County police keep an eye on cars with out of state/out of county plates. As a Johnson County resident, I appreciate that.
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Old 10-17-2016, 02:55 PM
 
Location: KCMO (Plaza)
290 posts, read 230,070 times
Reputation: 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by luzianne View Post
And as that happens, residents will move further out to get away from the crime.

Some thugs have cars; some don't. I know for a fact that Johnson County police keep an eye on cars with out of state/out of county plates. As a Johnson County resident, I appreciate that.
At what point do you take back your city? Plenty of people moved from NYC in the 70s, but the city was cleaned up and people returned, albeit many stayed and put up with the crap too during that time. Long story short, I'm not joining another white flight to 250th St. and Metcalf Ave.
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Old 10-17-2016, 03:21 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
10,705 posts, read 18,493,517 times
Reputation: 5409
Quote:
Originally Posted by PA650 View Post
At what point do you take back your city? Plenty of people moved from NYC in the 70s, but the city was cleaned up and people returned, albeit many stayed and put up with the crap too during that time. Long story short, I'm not joining another white flight to 250th St. and Metcalf Ave.
Taking the city back is happening in many cities (even in KC to a very minor extent). In the short time I have been in the DC area, I have watched an incredible amount of white flight back to the central cities of DC and Baltimore. I'm talking about areas that were easily as bad as KCMO's east side that have totally flipped and are barely recognizable from even five years ago. The cities still have high crime areas and recent crime rates have been alarming (something that is happening across the country), but they are still moving into these areas. You see people running, biking etc in areas that were very dangerous just a few years ago and many areas that still look rough today and it seems like people just get out even more when things do happen.

For example when there was a bunch of muggings along an urban bike trail, the residents didn't use the trail less, they started using it more to make it known they were not going to live in fear.

For the record, some transit will bring an unwanted element into the suburbs. But you can control it. That's where cities go wrong. One of the main contributors to the fall of the Bannister Mall/Benjamin Plaza was after METRO started running the Prospect 71 bus there without police enforcement or even cleaning up the bus stops making the area look very ghetto. Most people using the buses were not criminals, but enough were that things started happening. Just all the trash and shopping carts left all over the place near the big bus stops was giving a bad vibe. That could have been dealt with better.

I don't think JoCo has much to worry about. The only kind of transit that will ever be built into the suburbs of KC will be commuter transit (buses or rail) which will be used almost exclusively by suburban commuters. KC will never have a regional light rail or metro system which is often where problems start if not properly policed, kept clean etc.
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Old 10-17-2016, 03:59 PM
 
12,607 posts, read 14,609,308 times
Reputation: 14096
Quote:
Originally Posted by PA650 View Post
At what point do you take back your city? Plenty of people moved from NYC in the 70s, but the city was cleaned up and people returned, albeit many stayed and put up with the crap too during that time. Long story short, I'm not joining another white flight to 250th St. and Metcalf Ave.
Well, I would like to move to 250th and not Metcalf, but somewhere south, anyway - not because of white flight, but just because I'd like a bigger lot/more land and that's not available where I am.


As far as I have seen, "taking back" hasn't worked. I think preventing the crime from entering the area in the first place is a better plan.
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Old 10-17-2016, 06:49 PM
 
519 posts, read 467,990 times
Reputation: 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
Taking the city back is happening in many cities (even in KC to a very minor extent). In the short time I have been in the DC area, I have watched an incredible amount of white flight back to the central cities of DC and Baltimore. I'm talking about areas that were easily as bad as KCMO's east side that have totally flipped and are barely recognizable from even five years ago. The cities still have high crime areas and recent crime rates have been alarming (something that is happening across the country), but they are still moving into these areas. You see people running, biking etc in areas that were very dangerous just a few years ago and many areas that still look rough today and it seems like people just get out even more when things do happen.

For example when there was a bunch of muggings along an urban bike trail, the residents didn't use the trail less, they started using it more to make it known they were not going to live in fear.

For the record, some transit will bring an unwanted element into the suburbs. But you can control it. That's where cities go wrong. One of the main contributors to the fall of the Bannister Mall/Benjamin Plaza was after METRO started running the Prospect 71 bus there without police enforcement or even cleaning up the bus stops making the area look very ghetto. Most people using the buses were not criminals, but enough were that things started happening. Just all the trash and shopping carts left all over the place near the big bus stops was giving a bad vibe. That could have been dealt with better.

I don't think JoCo has much to worry about. The only kind of transit that will ever be built into the suburbs of KC will be commuter transit (buses or rail) which will be used almost exclusively by suburban commuters. KC will never have a regional light rail or metro system which is often where problems start if not properly policed, kept clean etc.
The whites moving back into cities (DC, Baltimore) for the most part are your wealthy, liberal/progressive elitist, not your working, conservative, middle class people.
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Old 10-17-2016, 07:34 PM
 
Location: IN
20,168 posts, read 34,480,827 times
Reputation: 12507
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovekcmo View Post
The whites moving back into cities (DC, Baltimore) for the most part are your wealthy, liberal/progressive elitist, not your working, conservative, middle class people.
No, they are just cities that are doing better economically than KC is; Therefore median incomes will continue to rise at a faster rate there with stronger job growth.
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Old 10-17-2016, 08:42 PM
 
Location: KCMO (Plaza)
290 posts, read 230,070 times
Reputation: 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by luzianne View Post
Well, I would like to move to 250th and not Metcalf, but somewhere south, anyway - not because of white flight, but just because I'd like a bigger lot/more land and that's not available where I am.


As far as I have seen, "taking back" hasn't worked. I think preventing the crime from entering the area in the first place is a better plan.
Nothing wrong with more land. My family is in the 'country' up in the Northland. It's nice, but I like getting back to the city though.

Preventing crime is key, but as long as people continue to move into the city, and the leadership of the city strives to improve quality of life along with neighborhood associations taking the lead in making their community better, the area will get better. For all the naysayers, that's what's great about downtown being developed since it allows nearby areas to experience growth and revitalization. As long as no dire economic calamities emerge, more development is heading toward Troost as Midtown experiences growth and new interest. Of course some East Side residents complaining about a lack of growth will likely complain about the 'wrong' type of growth when out of state developers start rehabbing old buildings in the area to market rate apartments, but you can't win over everyone.
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