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Old 10-28-2016, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Alamogordo, NM
5,498 posts, read 5,160,767 times
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As a newcomer to the KC Metro reading this thread and a sports fan, I like the idea of a stadium located as stated above. I see a lot of character in KC's downtown area, and as a history buff, and someone who's still driving around discovering things, downtown is a much better and interesting place ta be. Not out in Overland Park, or Lee's Summit, or Grandview, etc. I am not interested in quibbling over the Kansas vs. Missouri Kansas City interest thing.


I like large Metro downtowns and I've seen where baseball downtown is a good idea and it works. References can be made to my birth city Seattle, and places like St.Louis. This idea of the state of Kansas luring companies out of Kansas City, MO, proper is just a business idea. But things like baseball transcend simple economics and get a person to start thinking things like "fun", "cool", "great" and "historically awesome." Arrowhead should probably stay outside the core area as has been stated. But the area being discussed seems like it would be a good one for baseball. Chime in with more ideas. I'm too new to know the history here, but I am interested in it and also how the present and future can augment what has already been built and what has already happened.
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Old 10-28-2016, 05:59 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
10,705 posts, read 18,504,291 times
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Originally Posted by elkotronics View Post
As a newcomer to the KC Metro reading this thread and a sports fan, I like the idea of a stadium located as stated above. I see a lot of character in KC's downtown area, and as a history buff, and someone who's still driving around discovering things, downtown is a much better and interesting place ta be. Not out in Overland Park, or Lee's Summit, or Grandview, etc. I am not interested in quibbling over the Kansas vs. Missouri Kansas City interest thing.


I like large Metro downtowns and I've seen where baseball downtown is a good idea and it works. References can be made to my birth city Seattle, and places like St.Louis. This idea of the state of Kansas luring companies out of Kansas City, MO, proper is just a business idea. But things like baseball transcend simple economics and get a person to start thinking things like "fun", "cool", "great" and "historically awesome." Arrowhead should probably stay outside the core area as has been stated. But the area being discussed seems like it would be a good one for baseball. Chime in with more ideas. I'm too new to know the history here, but I am interested in it and also how the present and future can augment what has already been built and what has already happened.
Kansas went after the Chiefs and Royals mostly behind the scenes when the stadium issues were going on.

I keep thinking there would have been no way the state could have afforded it at the time, but ten years of watching KS throw hundreds of millions of dollars at KCMO companies while slashing budgets to schools, colleges, roads, and social services has changed my mind. Giving 80 million to the freaking American Royal is insane (but great for KCMO for once). Kansas will do anything to make it appear as though the state is growing.

The threat of the Chiefs going out by the speedway and the Royals to western JoCo was the defining moment for many Jackson County residents, including myself, that did not support renovating Kauffman, but decided it was either renovate or lose the teams to Kansas. I was dead set against renovated Kauffman and I still think it was a waste of money because the city gets nothing in return from that location.

However, Arrowhead should have been renovated along with a rolling roof or a new retractable stadium could have been built (although I preferred to keep the Arrowhead bowl, so I preferred renovating).

A new baseball stadium should have been built downtown. KC would have hosted a superbowl, would be back in the race to host NCAA final fours and the stadium would be more usable for other events. The location is perfect and the I-70 corridor needs rail transit, not to mention it's probably the only corridor in metro KC that would support light rail. The parking lots could serve as a huge commuter parking lot for commuters and other downtown events.

A baseball stadium downtown would have been a game changer for KC. There would be three times the construction downtown today had the stadium moved downtown.
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Old 10-28-2016, 08:10 PM
 
Location: Alamogordo, NM
5,498 posts, read 5,160,767 times
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A new baseball stadium should have been built downtown. KC would have hosted a superbowl, would be back in the race to host NCAA final fours and the stadium would be more usable for other events. The location is perfect and the I-70 corridor needs rail transit, not to mention it's probably the only corridor in metro KC that would support light rail. The parking lots could serve as a huge commuter parking lot for commuters and other downtown events.

A baseball stadium downtown would have been a game changer for KC. There would be three times the construction downtown today had the stadium moved downtown.


I would agree - a baseball stadium downtown is a win-win for all parties. The loser would be or could be - Johnson County, Kansas? Can we get a "I could care less?" I have only been here for 2 1/2 months in Grandview, Jackson County, Missouri, USA, and I am already thinking that Johnson County-ites have a huge case of "You know, we over here on the Kansas side are a lot better than you. Just look at our ridiculously oversized, over-priced Kansas McMansions."


My wife and I drive around, astounded, at how so many people live in these semi-circular subdivisions in Johnson County. We asked a long-time Kansas City resident, though he's only 24 years old, he's been here all of his life. We asked him "Who is buying up all of these Johnson County, Kansas, McMansions?"


His answer? "Doctors and lawyers." They're all over here. There are apparently foreign doctors coming to work in Kansas and Missouri en masse - and they are indeed well-paid.


Without getting in to a full-blown short story, I would say that Kansas City, MO, is where the Chiefs and Royals belong! Not anywhere in Kansas. Talk about cherry-picking a local team and trying to act like it's yours or something. Sheesh - get a more valid life.


We were at the Plaza for the initial time last Saturday and had a ball. Felt completely safe. Royal's Stadium oughta be around there, somewhere. It should be built with old-school, 1890's brick architecture. No getting it mussed and fussed up with Kansas City, KS, or Overland Park, KS, or Shawnee Mission, KS, or Lenexa, KS.


Ya gotta keep 'em separated, according to The Offspring.
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Old 10-30-2016, 08:22 AM
 
1,298 posts, read 984,056 times
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Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
Bottom line is that all of this new residential construction is going to slow, if not come to a grinding halt, if more jobs don't start coming downtown. At the rate Downtown KC is going, there will only be 20,000 jobs downtown in 2040. That's not going to get it done.

Hopefully by 2040, there are some new office towers and a much larger corporate presence downtown. The East Village / East side of the loop would be perfect for a large corporate campus as well. In order to sustain the current residential development and not have a bubble burst just a few years into the boom, KC needs to get more jobs downtown. Otherwise, demand will slow greatly and rent prices will rise too fast for the area to sustain as well.

So long as metro KC (mostly fueled by Kansas) continues to play corporate welfare and give companies excessive incentives to build in suburban greenfields, downtown is out of luck though and the economy of the entire metro will continue to grow very slow compared to most cities in the country. So something has to change in KC or KC will be passed by a dozen other cities by 2040.
If you think of the age of the workforce by the year 2040, Millenials will be 40-60 years old. They will be the establishment bulk of the workforce, and many workers will be of the generation younger than that (whatever it's called). If current cultural shifts continue, even in part, the working public will force corporations to abandon their ill-considered suburban office parks, and return to the core.

It's honestly shocking that so many Millennials have chosen to live in urban Kansas City to begin with, considering that most of them still have to commute 20+ minutes to their jobs on the outskirts. One of the main reasons this cultural shift has taken hold across the country is because it allows people to abandon car ownership (or at least minimize driving) and reduce the geographical radius of their daily lives to be contained in a more vibrant physical environment. However, this by and large does not translate in Kansas City.

If Cerner, for example, truly is committed to the Kansas City area, the demand for centralized office space from their young-to-middle-age workers will start to become overwhelming in the next 10 years. If they're awake at all, they will respond, and become the catalyst for other major employers to do the same.

By 2040, either Kansas City will have gotten on board with this, or their momentum in becoming an urban destination will have imploded altogether.
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Old 10-31-2016, 07:05 AM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
10,705 posts, read 18,504,291 times
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Originally Posted by rwiksell View Post
If you think of the age of the workforce by the year 2040, Millenials will be 40-60 years old. They will be the establishment bulk of the workforce, and many workers will be of the generation younger than that (whatever it's called). If current cultural shifts continue, even in part, the working public will force corporations to abandon their ill-considered suburban office parks, and return to the core.

It's honestly shocking that so many Millennials have chosen to live in urban Kansas City to begin with, considering that most of them still have to commute 20+ minutes to their jobs on the outskirts. One of the main reasons this cultural shift has taken hold across the country is because it allows people to abandon car ownership (or at least minimize driving) and reduce the geographical radius of their daily lives to be contained in a more vibrant physical environment. However, this by and large does not translate in Kansas City.

If Cerner, for example, truly is committed to the Kansas City area, the demand for centralized office space from their young-to-middle-age workers will start to become overwhelming in the next 10 years. If they're awake at all, they will respond, and become the catalyst for other major employers to do the same.

By 2040, either Kansas City will have gotten on board with this, or their momentum in becoming an urban destination will have imploded altogether.
I honestly think KC won't have to wait till 2040 to find out. The city will know probably within 2-3 years how many people are willing to live downtown and commute to suburban office parks. I personally don't think the current residential boom is sustainable for too much longer without more jobs in the core. I think residential units will still come downtown, but at a much slower pace. Rents will simply rise too high for people to justify living downtown AND commuting and the number of people willing to do that will quickly max out. The whole point of living in the city, paying higher center city rents etc is not having to spend two hours a day commuting or even owning a car at all.
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Old 11-01-2016, 06:16 AM
 
886 posts, read 1,860,882 times
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Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
This is fantastic. Very nicely done. You have taken most of my ideas (not saying you stole them, just the things I have been preaching about for years that I would like to see) and put them into a nice graphic.

The main difference from your plan and mine is your placement of the stadiums. The baseball stadium absolutely should be downtown, I do agree with that. But it has to be in a area where transit works but at the same time, you can still easily drive (parking problems would kill attendance). It also can't be too close to the CBD because it will create too much parking demand and fill the CBD with parking lots and people would tear down usable buildings for surface parking lots for baseball crowds because land would be more valuable for parking than for buildings.

If you take out the west loop, that would free up some land, but not enough. You would have to also remove the FBI building and there would still be some pretty huge obstacles to overcome, mainly parking and transit access. Plus, the stadium in that location would be hemmed up against the bluffs marking it only accessible from a couple of sides. That location would also put way too much stress on a mainly residential area. It's a great idea, I just don't think it would ever work there logistically. It has a much better chance of happening the the north loop (8th and Main area).

A stadium placed in the crossroads district would be easily accessed from all directions, and all areas of Downtown (Loop, Crown Center etc so you could walk to it from a very large area of hotels etc). You would be close to many transit options. Plus you are going to need some parking and you could place some parking garages east of the the stadium without killing the urban fabric of the area. Plus it's just a more realistic idea (but still a pipe dream) as far as assembling the land etc.

This is what I'm talking about:



As far as the football stadium. I honestly think the massive surface parking lots of Arrowhead and the tailgating experience there is what makes Arrowhead so amazing and unique and is the one thing that keeps the fans coming back even if the Chiefs suck. If you put the stadium downtown and made everybody fend for themselves for parking, I actually think that could potentially ruin the entire Chiefs game day experience and hurt attendance greatly. Plus, 80,000 seat football stadiums just don't belong in downtown areas. They do much more harm than good to the urban fabric and vibrancy of a city. Keep arrowhead where it is, even if they build a new stadium some day.

Having said that, the Isle of Crap has to go. An NFL stadium would never fit where the casino is so that's not really even on option. It might have fit in Bearkley Park, but it won't now that it's being develped. However that would be a great location for a full size aquarium. KC could build a true world class aquarium and it could be attraction that pulls people to the riverfront.

You don't have to do this, but it would be cool to see the graphics with football stadium replaced with an aquarium and the baseball stadium moved to 20th and Oak just north of the tracks. Basically right where you have a streetcar stop. (you could also add a transit stop to the commuter tracks, although people could easily walk from union station.

Your greenspace is great, however, I would run the streetcar track to downtown KCK via the new greenway corridor where I-70 was rather than the 12th/670 industrial corridor. I think that could generate a LOT of interest in the riverfront/Kaw point as well as downtown KCK. Plus if you take the interstate off the Lewis and Clark viaduct, you would have existing bridges in place to use for the streetcar and elevated park/bike/pedestrian greenway. So maybe the KC Museum route could go north on Broadway and then west on 6th to head over the Lewis and Clark bridge to KCK? I like the idea of keeping the route through downtown because it provides a circulation loop route for Downtown as the same time.


Other minor changes I would make is to route the red streetcar line across a new pedestrian bridge but closer to Heart of America to it goes into NKC and the north side of river could also be park land. The area just east of the Broadway bridge north of the river (Harlem) would be redeveloped into a dense mixed use district. The orange BRT line you have is perfect for Downtown airport, Briarcliff all the way to KCI. However, I would run it straight up Broadway and across the new Broadway Bridge using HOV lanes across the new bridge.

Other small ideas:

Penn Valley Park needs an attraction. As silly as this may sound, but a large "wheel" in Penn Valley park would be pretty amazing placed on one of the higher points. Many cities have them now and they are very popular. Even London has one. I think it would be a really neat attraction for the park.

These are all just things I would do. Please don't think I don't like your plans, I do, a LOT. I'm just trying to add some ideas that I think would make it better and possibly more doable. So it would be cool to create a graphic that incorporates my changes. Maybe some others will chime in with their ideas. This could be something that could be taken to the city for their long term planning if the plans were reasonable and well though out.

Thanks for making this. Very cool!
I'd like to see Sporting Park downtown, I think it would be great!
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Old 11-01-2016, 08:16 AM
 
1,298 posts, read 984,056 times
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Originally Posted by skrizzle View Post
I'd like to see Sporting Park downtown, I think it would be great!
I have no problem with Sporting being located in Village West, but I agree with you that it would be better downtown. As a show of good faith between the states, I would support the idea of a development in downtown KCK that features a new soccer stadium. Hopefully they will finally have started to see some action there before 2040, because they need something BAD.
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Old 11-01-2016, 10:20 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
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Originally Posted by rwiksell View Post
I have no problem with Sporting being located in Village West, but I agree with you that it would be better downtown. As a show of good faith between the states, I would support the idea of a development in downtown KCK that features a new soccer stadium. Hopefully they will finally have started to see some action there before 2040, because they need something BAD.
I wonder how long soccer stadiums last. There is a slight chance that the Royals will revisit the idea of building a downtown baseball stadium, but I would guess that the soccer stadium will be out there for 20 years.

I just wonder if the Village West area will still be a retail destination in 20 years. I think western WyCo will need to build a lot more homes for that area to remain viable for 20 years. I just don't see it remaining a super regional destination for that long as newer things open up in other parts of the metro with better demographics and more nearby residents. Knowing Kansas, there will some huge STAR bond project built in western Lenexa/Shawnee in the next 10-15 years that will pretty much close the Legends. If the retail area starts to go downhill, that's when the soccer stadium may move.

Kaw Point would be awesome, but history shows that it would likely be built even further out, like past K-7 or something.
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Old 11-02-2016, 06:49 AM
 
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Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
Kaw Point would be awesome, but history shows that it would likely be built even further out, like past K-7 or something.
I don't know much about Sporting. Do you know if they see themselves as a "Kansas" team? Or have they developed some kind of specific loyalty to the state? Or are they just as likely to move anywhere in the metro area if it comes time to abandon their current location?
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Old 11-03-2016, 12:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by rwiksell View Post
I don't know much about Sporting. Do you know if they see themselves as a "Kansas" team? Or have they developed some kind of specific loyalty to the state? Or are they just as likely to move anywhere in the metro area if it comes time to abandon their current location?
No they consider themselves part of the KC METRO, they unlike User KCMO, lol are all about KC unity and don't discriminate fans that live in both states. Check this
video out. Their main offices are in Downtown KC, their practice facilities are in Swope Park (but not for long, will be moving to KCK after National Soccer Center is complete) but play out in KCK. I think they will be out at Village West for a while, that stadium was built for expansion in mind, roughly can expand by 10,000 more seats, and rumors are they should be announcing expansion by the end of the decade. Basically the owners of the team are OnGoal, which consists of Cerner owners, now tell me again where have they showed loyalty? If Kansas had given them a better "deal" aka tax breaks, to build that massive center that is being built in South KC, do you think they would have batted an eye? Hell no. lol They are taking advantage of our idiotic government here in Kansas and getting tax breaks galore.
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